Swing-Lock Adjustable Bullet Sizing Die

[deadeye]

with knurled i also have next to nothing on copper & use boretech eliminator also,are you sure the copper looking patches are not from the jag? & or brass brush?

[Dave W]

Oct 26, 2010 17:31:42 GMT -5 Harley said:

Thanks, DaveW. Now, I'm really lost.

You ARE using the smooth die, right? Not the full form?

You're starting with a new bullet, then making one pass, only, through the die?

Do you patch between shots?

I just plain don't understand how there could be so little copper on your patches. I guess I COULD have very little copper if I used a poor copper cleaner or loaded a very loose bullet. You must not be doing either of those, though, because your groups are so good.

Harley

Yes, smooth die.
Yes, 250 FTX, one pass.
I used to patch with alcohol and a clean patch. No patching whatsoever recently(thanks Deadeye). I believe patching increases copper fouling. When I was patching, I was getting a lot of copper wash on the cleaning patches, using Wipeout bore cleaner. Since I went to shooting dirty, very little copper wash on the cleaning patches, and yes I was surprised by this.

The FTX sizes goofy since the sidewall jacket has two different thicknesses but near the top of the bearing surface the diameter is .4505-.451, tough to get an exact measurement with calipers.

I warn you, if you proceed with experimenting and shooting dirty, you are probably not going to like the jerky resistance you get when seating. I know I hated it, and still prefer the feeling of seating on a patched barrel, but for hunting purposes, dirty makes more sense if accuracy is not affected too much.

Harley, I'm not trying to sway you into changing, just pointing out that there are other ways.
Old saying, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Your old routine is one heck of a bird. IMO

[Dave W]

Oct 26, 2010 18:01:18 GMT -5 deadeye said:

with knurled i also have next to nothing on copper & use boretech eliminator also,are you sure the copper looking patches are not from the jag? & or brass brush?

Good point, I always get copper wash on the patches when cleaning my .50 from the brush or jags and I'm pretty sure there is no copper in the bore.

[Harley]

Deadeye, you are absolutely correct: I do use the spinjag with my Eliminator, but use a nylon brush for scrubbing. That's not where the copper comes from, though, because after a couple of passes even a new patch of Eliminator on the spinjag comes out clean.

DaveW, you've given me a lot to think about. I'm right now wishing I had never started this new procedure because yes, I had it good with the old method. I think I'll try it your way (not patching), but I still don't know how you can start with a clean barrel and have the bullets obturate, then not be too tight as the barrel fouls. I also don't understand why the fouling doesn't build up progressively to the point that you can't seat the bullet. Please explain.

BTW, I have found that after multiple applications of Wipe-Out, even letting it set overnight, Eliminator will still turn a patch green, indicating it's a better copper cleaner.

Harley

[swinglock]

Harley,

I have been giving more careful thought to your die and want to change gears. I still believe the adjustment compression ring is very likely cracked.

Here is why I am reconsidering.

The bullets typically sized through that smooth die such as Parker, Hornady XTP, SST, FTX and some others are really quite soft and size quite easily. And, the compression ring in that die is really very large and thick walled. Even with a crack, it could still be strong enough to provide adjustment if it is turned far enough. If there is a crack, it could have started during the heat treatment and then finally cracked fully while in use. In my experience with all of the adjustment displacement you have been using to get those bullets to change such a tiny amount, those bullets should be literally falling down your barrel. The die does provide fine adjustment but not that fine.

Please return for evaluation and correction of any problem.

Thanks,
Tom

[Dave W]

Oct 26, 2010 18:47:51 GMT -5 Harley said:

BTW, I have found that after multiple applications of Wipe-Out, even letting it set overnight, Eliminator will still turn a patch green, indicating it's a better copper cleaner.

Harley

POP! (bubble bursts)
I really like this stuff too.

Honestly, I don't know why I was able to get that many shots off with no problems. If not for testing the other load and laziness, I would have never stumbled across it. I normally clean after every session, except the last before hunting season.

[Harley]

DaveW, I ordered a can of Wipe-Out just out of curiosity; after using it I was thrilled at how easy the entire procedure was. My own bubble popped after the follow-up with Eliminator. Sorry.

Harley

[Harley]

Tom, thanks for the thougtful follow-up. I'll find a box for the die and have it in the mail, tomorrow.

Harley

[jims]

Swinglock just emailed me that my smooth die is on the way. My fault for ordering so late, I may not have time to test before season to add to this site. I have read every posting here, keep up the great ideas.
My hope is the die will work for me as I can then use real centerfire rifle bullets.
I hope this is related enough that I am not sabotaging this site.

[Harley]

Thanks for posting, Jims. The more ideas and experiences we can display, the better our ultimate results.

Harley

[tar12]

Oct 26, 2010 22:00:50 GMT -5 Harley said:

Thanks for posting, Jims. The more ideas and experiences we can display, the better our ultimate results.

Harley

Yes sir! This has been a very informative thread! Keep the info coming! ;D

[edge]

Harley, just as a suggestion. If you are worried about copper fouling, then shoot your foulers with a sabot to get some crud between the bullet and bore before you switch to sabotless.

You might also try some bore butter on some of your wool wads. If worried about powder contamination add a dry wool wad under the lubed wad for your first few shots.

edge.

[Harley]

Edge, you've just added about three confounding variables to all the other things I'll have to try.

Harley

[deadeye]

i think what davw & i have found is shooting "dirty" w/wool wad the leftover residue is acting as a lubricate so to speak resulting in almost no copper moslty just powder when cleaning, my accuracy got much better this way & i prefer it however 1- negative but did not afffect accuracy was after approx 10-12shots you start to get a chatterering effect while seating. as for going back to plastic for me no-way even for foulers.i might mention also i got my best results dirty with what i call a medium friction fit while seating instead of real tight. i know harley got great results the other way & our's certainly have not bested his by any means,dont want to step on this thread any longer but felt a few here are looking for idea's.the only reason im looking at this die & possibly the full-form die is to break consistently under .5moa possibly getting in to the .2-.3's whick i think is capable of, if all the variables come together.

[rangeball]

Could the difference in copper fouling noted be from the knurled bullet being more susceptible to leaving copper, since tiny areas of the surface are raised and possibly more vulnerable to separation when fired?

[Harley]

That's a good thought, Rangeball.

And, Deadeye,you're not "stepping" on this thread, you're contributing to it.

Harley

[Dave W]

Oct 27, 2010 9:07:17 GMT -5 rangeball said:

Could the difference in copper fouling noted be from the knurled bullet being more susceptible to leaving copper, since tiny areas of the surface are raised and possibly more vulnerable to separation when fired?

Deadeye knurls.

[rangeball]

Sorry, missed that. I posted that when I was reading page 4, didn't notice a page 5

[swinglock]

Harley,

I received your die the day before yesterday and shipped it back to you yesterday.

To check the die out, I first removed the adjustment / compression collar and carefully checked it for any visual sign of failure. None was visible so I then checked the collar for Rockwell hardness which measured Rc 42. The hardness I like to see is Rc 50 to 52 but Rc 42 still is quite hard and represents a very high level of strength certainly sufficient for the purpose. Even so, I reheat treated the part to the desired Rc 50 which greatly improves wear resistance.

The die was then reassembled and tested for function. It functioned perfectly thus indicating no failure of the adjustment compression collar.

To test function, (4) Hornady 250 gr XTP bullets were resized starting with the die set to the zero graduation mark. Each bullet was pushed through the die only one time at a specific setting before measurement.

One bullet was sized at Zero (0), one bullet with the die set smaller at graduation ( 5 ), one bullet at graduation ( 10....which is 1/4 turn of the collar ) and the fourth bullet sized with the die set back to (0). Since like many bullets these bullets are slightly out of round ( sizing dies correct very little or none for out of roundness ), each bullet was carefully measured using a micrometer with .0001" resolution in several places around the base after being resized. The smallest measurement was recorded as follows:

Bullet 1. Graduation (0) .4506"

" 2. " (5) .4500"

" 3. " (10) .4492"

" 4. " (0) .4506"

Bullet 1. and 4. measured the same showing the dies exact return to the zero setting.

The total reduction in size between bullet 1. and 3. or between graduation (0) and (10) is .4506 - .4492 = .0014"

To calculate the value of each graduation divide .0014 / 10 = .00014" per graduation. This is a very interesting observation because the calculated value for each graduation by design is .00013". Perhaps if different types of bullets were sized, the result might be different but in this case the graduations are indeed quite accurate.

Tom

[Harley]

Thank you, Tom, for the quick and very fine check-up; I'll look forward to more testing when I receive it.

Harley

[jims]

The production time for my die was quick and all my after purchase questions have been answered promptly. Just no time yet to test it out.

[tar12]

Nov 6, 2010 7:10:05 GMT -5 jims said:

The production time for my die was quick and all my after purchase questions have been answered promptly. Just no time yet to test it out.

Slacker! ;D

[jims]

;D Tar12: You may be correct but since I received the die I moved 40 tons of gravel, mixed 26 bags of sackrete to finish a culvert project, cut some trees and finished one permanent stand.
I still hope to get to try out the die.

[tar12]

Nov 6, 2010 21:27:45 GMT -5 jims said:

;D Tar12: You may be correct but since I received the die I moved 40 tons of gravel, mixed 26 bags of sackrete to finish a culvert project, cut some trees and finished one permanent stand.
I still hope to get to try out the die.

I can not wait for your results! I think this is your answer buddy and it has been a long time in coming!