Need a recommendation on an AIR rifle

[Rifleman]

Sorry guys if this is in the wrong place but since we don't have a pfft forum I hope you will humor me. Anyway here is the deal. I got a buddy who wants me to fix him up with an airgun to kill groundhogs with around the farm. He is dead set on an air rifle. He is very specific in that it must be able to kill a groundhog at max distance possible and he wants a scope too. His budget is 5-600 dollars. I was thinkin one of the 9mm pneumatics but I dunno. How far can you hill a groundhog with a 22 air gun. I really don't want to screw around with this as I am pretty much ignorant on the subject. However I am very interested in what he wants to trade me so I must pursue it. Could some of you guys who knows airguns steer me right? I can also tell you that he would be looking for something that is not finicky or high maintenance as he is a fire and forget kinda guy. Thanks for the help, Rman

[Dave W]

Check with Dave D, pretty sure he is into air rifles.

[Rifleman]

Yeah Dave is the Pfft gun guru and I sent him a PM. He said he was gonna get back with me soon as he has a chance to check up on a few things. However I always like to hear what others have learned by experience as well.

[edge]

A couple of years ago on the old board someone went Boar hunting with air rifles...they were ate least 30 caliber.

edge.

[rossman40]

A little bit of history, Lewis & Clark took a air rifle on their expedition. It is in the Beeman air gun museum. There is some guy who makes replicas and using some modern materials and slight re-design gets pretty good performance from them.

[Rifleman]

Maybe your referring to the Quackenbush air guns Rossman. There is an article of some guy who took a bison with one shooting a 45 cal pushing a 510 gr bullet @ around 750 fps I believe.

www.bigboreairguns.com/07bisonhunt.htm

[Rifleman]

[rossman40]

The one I posted in the previous post was made by Gary Barnes. I was trying to find some info on the guys that were making them more like a Kentucky flintlock. They had a story on one of those TV gunshows. I think it was Ernie Cowan and Rick Keller who was working with Dr. Beeman on the Lewis gun.

Beemans has a pretty good collection, www.beemans.net/collection.htm
The rest of the site is pretty awesome also, I just learned that they proved the gun in the collection was the one taken by Lewis and Clark on the trip and the Beemans donated it to the US Army a few years ago.

[pposey]

Beeman Kodiak in .25, Beeman R1 mag in .22,,, you can kill groundhogs out to 40 yards with one but you will not recover the hog,, .22LR subsonic is better but air rifles are fun to mess with and cheap to shoot

www.velocitypress.com/BeemanKodiak.shtml

I like the springers better as you have no need for compressed air, scuba tanks and fill stations, I have a R1 I have had over 30 years, very well built gun.

[Rifleman]

I was looking at the new Benjamin Nitro piston, what do you think of that one Posey? It is a springer but supposed to overcome some of the disadvantages of spring piston guns.One of those in .22 looks interesting enough.

[pposey]

Not sure, is that a gas ram model???

[pposey]

OK checked up on it,,,, guys I talked to both said that it is OK bang for the buck but also you get what ya pay for,,, It carries a cheaper price for that level of power, that "probably means quality cuts to cut cost,,,, gas ram could be made in China= inconsistancy and low life,,, my concern with gas rams is life expectancy,,, my R1 is 30 years + old and still shoots within 30fps of new, gas rams have the problem of containing compressed gas, it can and will leak and you can't top it off,,,, It is also reported to have a goshawful trigger,,,, probably ok for a knock around gun but if he is willing to go a couple hundred more he should get a .22 in R1 or a .25 in Kodiak,,,, thats what I would do, the R1 is an awsome gun.

also the speed ratings I found for the crossman/Benjamin was 950 fps in .22 cal and that was with light weight alloy pellets not lead,,,, those alloys are hard on springers as they lessen resistance to the piston and can cause piston slam,,, not good, bet it would be 900 max with a decent weight .22 lead pellet if that

[pposey]

I have a kodiak as well, can't report much on it except that it is a beast as far as close range power goes, have not even scoped it and tried for groups I've only had it a couple of weeks and got it in trade. If your buddy was closer he could come over and shoot some, I though about keeping the Kodiak for my son but the cocking pressure on it is like 38 pounds and thats wayyyy to much for him for many years. I though about keeping the Kodiak for me and giving him the R1 but really like that R1,,,,,,, had it since I was a big kid!

[Harley]

Just want to add a personal plug for my Beeman HW77 (currently, ~$625, new); one of the finest under-lever piston-cocking air rifles ever made. I've had mine since the 1970's, in .177, but it's now available in .22.

Harley

[pposey]

Those are nice fpr sure, the underlever gives you a fixed barrel and a little easier to tune and get good groups,,, your Beeman is as old as mine!

[Harley]

PPosey, I'm as proud of my Beeman as you obviously are of yours. Maybe we need our own forum.

Harley

[Rifleman]

Thanks guys for the insight. I am still looking things over but that is an awful lot of good advice. One more question, though, How fast can a traditional springer shoot a lead pellet in .22? I mean is there a gun that will shoot at 1000 fps or is 900 the limit? I just don't know what velocities I should be looking for. My friend wants this rifle for one thing, and that is to kill groundhogs in and near his barns, and some of these groundhogs are pretty big.

[Rifleman]

I was looking at Pyramid Air and they have an RWS Diana 460 Magnum that claims 1000 fps with .22 lead pellet. That is the most powerful .22 springer I can find. Looks like a quality piece too. What do you guys think of that rifle?
Another thing, I looked at every scope on the Pyramid Air website and they all look like junk to me. I thought about a regular rifle scope, but I have heard that springers are notorious for being tough on regular riflescopes as the recoil impulse is different and that a springer will destroy a rifle scope that is not designed expressly for use with a spring air gun. Any advice on this aspect as well? Thanks in advance, Rman

[Harley]

Dwight, for a quick education on calibers recommended for target, plinking and small game, as well as pellet selection and velocities:

www.beeman.com/calselect.htm


Harley

[Rifleman]

Thanks Harley, I read the article and picked up some good tips!

[ET]

Rifleman

I am no expert on air rifles but agree with being said that air guns are harder on scopes.
But if I were to take up the sport of using air guns I would look to what Nikko has to offer.

www.nikkostirling.com/Content/Airking/airking.htm

I currently own 2 of their scope models for rifles and have never had any problems with them. Have owned them for about 20-years now.
Hope you find the info at least useful.



Ed

[pposey]

They will murder a regular scope with their forward and back recoil, or a cheap airgun scope. You can kill groundhogs with a .22 pellet but odds are they will get back to a hole and die there unless you are really close and make a great hit, pellets are pretty soft and will skid off of a skull at a slight angle,, I have skidded some off of rabbit and squirrel heads where the critter either fell or flopped but after getting it the pellet had not made a square hit and had broken the skull or at least addled the critter but skidded off to the side as well

[Harley]

I should have mentioned the following, earlier, but:

1. The Beeman site suggests .25 caliber for "larger" small game (I hadn't known air rifles were offered in .25 caliber)

2. You absolutely DO need a scope designed for air rifles; I bought a reconditioned Beeman scope 30+ years ago at a fraction of the original cost and it's still going strong; I'd check with Beeman to see if they still offer them.

Harley

[Rifleman]

Thanks Harley,PPosey and ET. I am still researching and will try to let you know if/when we get something.

[pposey]

I have a kodiak in .25 cal,,, it's a beast,,,

[Rifleman]

Will it kill a ground hog at 40 yards?

[pposey]

I bet it will but not right away, it will get back into it's hole,,, I have only had it a little while and shot it maybe 5 times. but at 10 feet it will blast through a pressure treated 1x4

[Rifleman]

Thanks for the honest answer, I am starting to wonder if a pre charged pneumatic in 9mm or a crossbow would be a better answer.

[pposey]

I shot the Kodiak some this weekend, using heavier pointed pellets at 20 yards it will shoot through a 2 inch thick diswashing detergent bottle full of water, through a half inch thick pine board, and will also shoot through the first 3/4th inch of a phone book. all with different shots not at the same time. I also shot a 1.5 inch group standing at 20 yards with open sights, not great but pretty good for me with open sights. It is a beasty of a pellet gun.

I have also decided that it is much to much pellet gun for my son,,, heck it will be 5 years before he can shoot it well and we really don't need a pellet gun of that ability as we can use our .22s, I'll keep looking for a deal on a R1 or smaller .177 cal for him.

Gonna sell the Kodiak and 3,000 high quallity pellets, mostly beeman, for $445 shipped, figure it will cost me at least $45 to ship, well over $100 worth of pellets.

[orion]

Sounds like a common dilemma. Want to shoot critters, with low sound and high energy. I have had a Beeman R1 in .20 and it is still going strong after close to 20 years. They are worth every cent. I would avoid the el cheapo guns. The springers will kill stuff, allot more stuff than you think, but I agree, many larger critters will end up in their hole to die a slow miserable death.

The problem with the pre charged air bottle type guns that shoot big lead is they can be loud. If loud is not a problem, get a good .22 and shoot sub sonic or CBs.

I like your idea of a cross bow. All though some locales do not allow bows of any sort, and will allow air guns.

Beeman used to make the R1 in .25 on the same frame as the others. Those were sweet. I shot a friend's and it had a real clobbering factor. The velocity I am sure was not like the Kodiak, but still hit much harder than my .20.

Myself, I have more or less retired my R1 for in suburbs dispatch of critters, and now use a scope sited CZ .22 with CB longs. They are as quiet as my R1 and hit way harder. Accuracy is respectable typically, although ,every now and then you get a flyer with a bad charge in it. You don't have to worry about your scope getting beaten to hell, either. I use an adjustable objective 3-9 .22 Weaver on it. It is the way to go, and cheaper than a good air gun.

Good luck