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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 10:46:17 GMT -5
Some of you may know that 'Q" and I have been doing depredation control on several Indiana farms the last couple of weeks. 8 on one farm,7 on another and 5 on the last. 15 have been harvested with my .45 and the 195 Barnes. 2 with .44 Rem mag and 3 with "Q"s 980 Ultra 20ga using Lightfields. Of the 15 taken with the 195 the shots ranged from 65yds to 376 yards. Of these 15 only one made it any distance and that was the double lung 376 yd shot and she made it approx 35 yards. This was the longest shot as the rest of them were under 300 yds.The majority of the shots were high shoulders shots and dropped at the report.Zero tracking in all cases...well except for a bad decision "Q" made...but that is another story.. ;D No recovered bullets yet..most entrance and exit holes were typical .40 cal. sized hole in and approx. 1 to1-1/4 exit. There are 2 exceptions where the deer was completely broadside and the 195 caught the opposing shoulder squarely and blasted the upper shoulder bone out leaving a baseball sized hole. The 195 has performed flawlessly in all cases. For those of you wondering... the vast majority of this meat was processed by the Tar family and given to people who have been drastically affected by the current economy and in need of the help.Nothing was wasted. This was not said to solicit atta boys as it is not needed nor wanted. I just wanted to state that nothing was wasted so nobody would cry foul.It is a labor of love for us. A couple members wanted pics of the 195s terminal performance and they will be forthcoming. Now I have to get the "rig" ready for this evenings hunt...dang it! ;D ;D
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Post by edge on Sept 7, 2011 11:16:41 GMT -5
Wow, how cool is that! It is certainly tough being you  edge. |
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Post by jims on Sept 7, 2011 11:19:53 GMT -5
Good report. I have some of those 195s I want to try this year in the 45s. Nice to know they work as well as the BOs.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 11:35:22 GMT -5
Wow, how cool is that! It is certainly tough being you edge. I got extremely lucky on this one bud! Right place at the right time. The largest farm borders Shades State Park on one side and Sugar Creek on the other. This is prime habitat to begin with and it recieves little to no pressure during hunting season let alone through the summer.The crop and tree damage is beyond belief..I will take some pics of this tree/crop damage as well. |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 11:38:40 GMT -5
Good report. I have some of those 195s I want to try this year in the 45s. Nice to know they work as well as the BOs. The terminal performance mimics the BOs for sure. They just shoot a lot flatter minus the recoil pucker factor... ;D This conversation has reminded me to order some more! ;D |
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larry
8 Pointer
Posts: 172
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Post by larry on Sept 7, 2011 11:51:40 GMT -5
:)Good report Rick. Nothing like the real hair test. See any big bucks ;D ;D
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 12:38:14 GMT -5
:)Good report Rick. Nothing like the real hair test. See any big bucks ;D ;D You had to bring that up! ;D Of course we did! The first morning we hunted the Shades farm I had a encounter with a 170 plus buck and he was followed by a 150 and 2 in the mid 140s.This was the first morning and the first deer I saw! Good omen! BUT, Quentin and I had a discussion early on in regards to what we would take from these farms and we also took into consideration the guys that would be hunting here during the regular season in which is not going to include us this first year. The farmer told me this up front and he also told me we were first on the regular season opening list since we were doing the depredation control. He limits the amount of hunters during the regular season for safety reasons and that is the way it should be. So we decided to only shoot does..this keeps the farmer happy and we do not whizz in anybodies cheerios by shooting bucks and besides the way the Indiana DNR has it set up you can not keep a complete set of antlers on anything over a 6 point. You have to turn one half of the rack over the DNR to discourage "trophy" hunting as the primary goal is bean eater removal. I am totally cool with all of this as our primary goal is help people and fill our freezers with primo doe meat. This takes all of the pressure off of our other farms and allows us to "Head hunt" them instead. It is a win win buddy! ;D |
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Post by dans on Sept 7, 2011 12:44:03 GMT -5
What a great post!
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Post by Jon on Sept 7, 2011 13:15:31 GMT -5
Tar. A great post and another ataboy for your great family. As the economy keeps drooping I can realize how much the meat is appreciated and top of the line doe.
Jon
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 15:24:04 GMT -5
Well the War Wagon is loaded.. ;D Power washed everything.Santitized the coolers.1 for beverages,1 for ice and 1 for meat. Sharpened 6 knives,the hatchet and changed the bone blade in the Wyoming saw although the saw is seeing little use as we are boning them out on the spot now.Much easier that way and the mess all stays there..  Looks pretty funny to view a carcass in that manner! Skeletonized scarecrow image comes to mind to describe it. Gassed the Arctic Cat and War Wagon up. Double checked the ammo supplies.. ;D Now I am waitng on my buddy to get home from football practice... ;D |
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Post by zakjak221 on Sept 7, 2011 15:31:47 GMT -5
Great report, and a win/win for hunter and the needy families--Does state pay for venison processing? 376---What a chuck!!  Always like hearing about bullet performance. Seems like the Barnes 195 shoots (and performs) well in a lot of guns. Definitely worth $1.00/copy. Mark |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 16:06:48 GMT -5
Great report, and a win/win for hunter and the needy families--Does state pay for venison processing? 376---What a chuck!! Always like hearing about bullet performance. Seems like the Barnes 195 shoots (and performs) well in a lot of guns. Definitely worth $1.00/copy. Mark I think they may pay the local desiginated donation butcher shops something but I am not sure. We are doing this on or own. |
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Post by artjr338wm on Sept 7, 2011 16:18:07 GMT -5
Tar, thanks for such a informative post. Should remove all doubt in the minds of those still questioning the Barnes all copper bullets in the Savage.
If you will I have a few questions.
#1-Do you have any thoughts on how the .40 caliber Barnes would shoot out of a converted T/C 45/70 barrel?
#2-What was the MV of your load?
I ask because I'm seriously considering buying a T/C barrel in 45/70 for my Encore and have SMI convert it to a smokeless ML.
Thanks, and hope you see the Booner again during gun season.
Arthur.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 16:33:12 GMT -5
Rick, good to hear someone helps control the crop eaters, good for hunter- farmer relations and some not so fortunate get some good meat. Its a win win...376 is a fur peice from where im from....good shooting!
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Post by jims on Sept 7, 2011 17:06:05 GMT -5
Just seeing a 170 and 150 is worth alot in its own right. Nice write up.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Sept 7, 2011 17:07:17 GMT -5
Hair testing...good. Accuracy testing....good.....feeding people with protein for free....priceless
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Post by jims on Sept 7, 2011 17:21:43 GMT -5
Tar12: At the rate you are using the 195s up you had better order a pallet full. Good shooting.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 7, 2011 17:34:18 GMT -5
Hair testing...good. Accuracy testing....good.....feeding people with protein for free....priceless Summed it up better than I could. Great job and thanks to you and your family for helping those less fortunate Rick. |
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Post by pposey on Sept 7, 2011 18:05:23 GMT -5
man thats alot of T loins,,,,
"I ask because I'm seriously considering buying a T/C barrel in 45/70 for my Encore and have SMI convert it to a smokeless ML."
my Encore 45/70 SMI convert shoots the barnes 195s very well
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Post by 10ga on Sept 7, 2011 18:18:00 GMT -5
Excellent report, good shooting, and good for farmers and people in need of a bit of help. It sure ain't like here in Virginia. Here it's like this with "damage control" permits.
1. NO antlered bucks! Shooting antlered buck is outside of permitted take. That is OK.
2. No taking ANY part of a deer shot on permit! They may be removed from field but must be left on the farm where killed and NO PART of the animal can be used or removed! They are required to be wasted. This is bad, very bad!
3. Any weapon may be used, at any time of day or night! With rule #2 above the typical farmer uses a 22 WMR or 17 HMR or a 223 and gut shoots, the deer run out of the field and go down in the woods to die and they don't even have to take them out of the beans. This is criminal activity in every other case with no permit and certainly immoral forever. This is pretty widespread with farmers that don't tolerate deer damage. Some do this practice and then even "rent" their farms for hunting in season. Mostly the renters of these places are "come heres" and have no idea why they don't kill very many deer, mostly blaming it on the "local" poachers. Sometimes you tell them what is happening and they don't believe it and the farmers certainly deny-deny-deny but mostly their family, kids, cousins etc. confirm-confirm-confirm. Makes me sick to think about it. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread but seemed a good time/place to vent. If you sayanything to Game and Fish about the practice they don't give a rip. You still have to buy a license and they get their $ and the farmers are happy. Yet they wonder why license sales are down every year. Thanks all, 10 ga
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 18:54:56 GMT -5
Without going into details.... I agree with Edge... "It's tough being you" .... Its going to be real hard to catch up with you since I have to wait until December  ... You guys have fun. Zen |
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lundy
8 Pointer
Posts: 182
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Post by lundy on Sept 7, 2011 19:03:38 GMT -5
This conversation has reminded me to order some more! ;D Good to see so much actual field testing to confirm what we all believed and mimic what I experienced on two deer last year. It will take us 10 years to equal what you have done in a couple of months. I did call Barnes this morning and order 150 more. I now have close to 300 195's, 3 lbs N-120 and around 350 smooth blue's. We are set for a few years. Are you still pushing them with N-120? |
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Post by DBinNY on Sept 7, 2011 19:28:59 GMT -5
Managing deer numbers creates a real challenge for the State Agencies with that responsibility. Deer numbers are controlled by managing the numbers of females removed. Farmers (at least those that don't hunt or lease their land to hunters) and car insurance companies would like to see none and hunters want them behind every tree. Allocating deer to the various hunting interests, who all have their own ideas of what ought to be as far as special seasons and what implements should be allowed (e.g., crossbow vs vertical bow during the archery season, antler restrictions etc.), is another set of challenges but somewhat off topic here. NY is really struggling with this challenge right now. In reality, deer management boils down to people management and trying to do the best job of making people happy; a balancing act. Understand that there is no way they are going to come up with a plan that makes everybody completely happy.
NY also issues nuisance permits to farmers suffering excessive crop damage and these are limited to antlerless deer only (aimed at does but not making you a criminal if you accidentally kill a button buck). This does create friction with neighboring hunters. Tar is obviously thinning deer where it is well justified, getting lots of practice, having fun, providing us with valuable information and feeding some needy people. Good for him and good for us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 19:36:47 GMT -5
Awesome post Tar that 376 shot gets us all pumped up,right place at the right time ,I think the farmer put the job in the right hands here.Be careful cleaning all them deer. Were the .44 kills by your girl ,I bet she was excited about the big bucks that you saw,AWESOME......
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 21:52:10 GMT -5
We got to the beanfield buffet a little to late this evening and "Q" busted some does out of there on his end and I think i caught movement as i rounded a bend in the field...so be it.
Art...The avg. was 2650 in 30-35 degree temps. I will have some new numbers this weeknd in warmer temps as Mark and I are taking his Encore conversion to the range to dial in.
Posey thanks for chimming in as I could not remember who had the SMI .45
10ga...you did not hijack the thread...more input the merrier. Indiana has its share of quirky laws as well. You can blast away all night with any legal weapon at yotes but as soon as it breaks dawn they better be unloaded and put up...really? Hows that for stupid?
Lundy... yes I am still using 60 grns of N-120. After talking to Zen and his experiences with the N120 I will be trying 62-63 grn of the N120 in cooler temps. Zen and I think this is doable with out blowing sabots. I am sure the accuracy will still be there.
Greenhorn...The daughter has not went yet..she is a fickle female and fond of her sleep and perfect days... ;D ;D whatever...
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Post by ET on Sept 8, 2011 5:44:29 GMT -5
Tar12
Talk about real time range testing. It don’t get any better than this for actual results.
Okay no compliments but what you’re doing has my respect and admiration.
Ed
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 8, 2011 6:30:27 GMT -5
Rick, I have followed with interest your post of the deer control hunt with much interest. Glad you and Q are having such good success. Sounds like you have that new rifle dialed in. You made a statement though that has me scratchin my head though:
What do you mean by that Rick? I thought one could use a centerfire rifle for yotes day or night?
Also one more question, I thought on depredation hunts one could also use any weapon, like a .308 rifle. Is that still true or has that changed as well?
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Post by tar12 on Sept 8, 2011 6:52:30 GMT -5
Dwight thanks for bringing that to my attention as I need to clarify what I meant to say and you are correct in that you can use a centerfire day or night for yotes..I was just lamenting the fact that during the regular deer season you can not use the same centerfire that you used last night to hunt yotes with on deer the next day. And yes you can indeed use any legal weapon for depredation control. Rifle,pistol,shotgun,...I will have to ask about using a crossbow/bow because I overheard a conversation one time saying that bows were a no-no for depredation hunts. I will have to verify this. Got any .308s laying around ? ;D ;D I will have to get one if I do this again next year for some variety. This year I wanted to throughly wring out the 195. Between last year and this year the 195 has accounted for 23 straight one shot kills...it has proven its worth to me.
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lundy
8 Pointer
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Post by lundy on Sept 8, 2011 7:06:52 GMT -5
Lundy... yes I am still using 60 grns of N-120. After talking to Zen and his experiences with the N120 I will be trying 62-63 grn of the N120 in cooler temps. Zen and I think this is doable with out blowing sabots. I am sure the accuracy will still be there. 62 gr N-120 is all I shot last year from both of my 45's and they just put keep putting little holes really close to each other down range. This was all shot from 70 deg and lower, don't know what summer heat would do with this load |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 8, 2011 7:10:42 GMT -5
Lundy... yes I am still using 60 grns of N-120. After talking to Zen and his experiences with the N120 I will be trying 62-63 grn of the N120 in cooler temps. Zen and I think this is doable with out blowing sabots. I am sure the accuracy will still be there. 62 gr N-120 is all I shot last year from both of my 45's and they just put keep putting little holes really close to each other down range. This was all shot from 70 deg and lower, don't know what summer heat would do with this load Thats good to know Lundy.. ;D |
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Looks pretty funny to view a carcass in that manner! Skeletonized scarecrow image comes to mind to describe it. Gassed the Arctic Cat and War Wagon up. Double checked the ammo supplies.. ;D Now I am waitng on my buddy to get home from football practice... ;D
... You guys have fun.
