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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 27, 2011 13:47:59 GMT -5
I am not so concerned with the seperation as i am how easily and much it opened up at 200yds. Does 76% weight retention sound right? Im not concerned either. They held together in the media and all held over 80% or more. Very few conventional bullets have done as well in my test media and almost no 300gr conventional have penetrated as far. They certainly are not too fragile for most American game.
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Post by wayles on Mar 27, 2011 13:48:37 GMT -5
what pointy bullet on the left and what weight is shown in the sabot Pic Thanks Wayles
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Post by fishhawk on Mar 27, 2011 14:18:30 GMT -5
Wayles, that bullet is the .458 300gr Barnes original.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 27, 2011 14:46:08 GMT -5
Wayles, that bullet is the .458 300gr Barnes original. Correct. That is the same bullet as the mushroom pic.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 27, 2011 14:50:25 GMT -5
I am not so concerned with the seperation as i am how easily and much it opened up at 200yds. Does 76% weight retention sound right? Im not concerned either. They held together in the media and all held over 80% or more. Very few conventional bullets have done as well in my test media and almost no 300gr conventional have penetrated as far. They certainly are not too fragile for most American game. I guess i was just a bit shocked that it only went in about 2 inches or shale/dirt after 1/4" of plywood. I would of thought at that distance it would not open up that violently. It had/has me a bit concerned that what would of that looked like if it would of been a 100yd impact. On a side note, i picked up some H4198 to mess with also, trying a 70gr. charge to try and get up over 2,400FPS (hopefully with good accuracy).
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 28, 2011 9:47:31 GMT -5
This is my best group before the bed job that i am trying to best.
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Post by Chris Champion on Mar 28, 2011 14:42:47 GMT -5
I haven't been following this post until today but I see that your first groups were all pretty tight using the Harvester BCR sabot. Since you've switched to orange MMP they seem to have opened up a bit. Just curious to why you switched? The .458 bullets will load tighter with the BCR, and when it gets very cold out and you have a dirty barrel it will be extremely tight. However, for best accuracy Tight is Right and I think you will get more consistent results with the BCR. I used to shoot the BO/BCR/67g H4198/ combo in my 50 cal with very consistent results.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 29, 2011 9:19:39 GMT -5
I haven't been following this post until today but I see that your first groups were all pretty tight using the Harvester BCR sabot. Since you've switched to orange MMP they seem to have opened up a bit. Just curious to why you switched? The .458 bullets will load tighter with the BCR, and when it gets very cold out and you have a dirty barrel it will be extremely tight. However, for best accuracy Tight is Right and I think you will get more consistent results with the BCR. I used to shoot the BO/BCR/67g H4198/ combo in my 50 cal with very consistent results. I originally started with MMP's'. I only had 10 BCR's to trial. If you look at my 1st 2 targets (both under 1") 1 was shot with BCR's and 1 with MMP's. The BCR's were giving me about 30-40 FPS more though. I have some more BCR's comming to test further.
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Post by onecardchuck on Mar 29, 2011 11:05:51 GMT -5
I would also include in the mix the harvester smooth black sabots, which will be a hair tighter than the BCR. The smooth was what worked best in my gun.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 29, 2011 17:11:24 GMT -5
I would also include in the mix the harvester smooth black sabots, which will be a hair tighter than the BCR. The smooth was what worked best in my gun. If they are tighter than the BCR's, then i will need a hammer to pound them in ;D
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 10:50:28 GMT -5
Well, i think i found my holy grail as far as a stock savage barrel is concerned. Both targets below are identical to each other as far as set up. I about fell over after i look through my spotting scope and saw this @ 200yds. Starting these BCR's with a knurled BO was VERY tough. After they were started they were not to bad, but after only 10 loads my pectoral muscle was shot, and i am in pretty good shape and strong. Me being only 5' 7" i'm sure does not help. Last pic is a scan of my spent sabots, which are a good bit expanded. Are these OK? I can take a actual close up pic if the scan is hard to read. There are a couple little splits around the outside, but they are not long.
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Post by fishhawk on Apr 1, 2011 11:28:43 GMT -5
Sorry you didn't get your money's worth out of my bedding job. I told you it still might not shoot!
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 11:32:53 GMT -5
Sorry you didn't get yout money's worth out of my bedding job. I told you it still might not shoot! Yea, i will have to send it back to you so you can try again ;D
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 1, 2011 11:41:04 GMT -5
Sorry you didn't get yout money's worth out of my bedding job. I told you it still might not shoot! Mine is going back to you as well, if it can't do better than .77" @100yds for five shots it's of no use to me. I need a RM# fishhawk. ;D
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 12:03:44 GMT -5
Sorry you didn't get yout money's worth out of my bedding job. I told you it still might not shoot! Mine is going back to you as well, if it can't do better than .77" @100yds for five shots it's of no use to me. I need a RM# fishhawk. ;D Snake, whats your set up?
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 1, 2011 13:45:24 GMT -5
Set up: Original 700MLS .45, Hunter's conversion & breechplug, Original 700ML camo stock that fishhawk worked his magic on.
Stock: Barrel free floated, magwell filled, 3 pillars installed, upgraded recoil lug, bedded beautifully. The 3rd pillar is full size action screw instead of the flimsy OEM.
110 gr BH209, 200gr Shockwave, Harvestor light blue sabot, CCI209M primer.
.77" @100yds 5 shots--5 to 7 minutes between shots.
Not smokeless, but she stacks them. Smokeless build coming as soon as McGowen gets everything figured out.
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Post by dave d. on Apr 1, 2011 14:19:01 GMT -5
:)j that is one awsome 200 yrd group. When can I look forward to seeing a repeat?
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Post by tar12 on Apr 1, 2011 18:38:03 GMT -5
Now go to 300 yds. You should be able to keep it under 4 inches pretty easy. You will have 18-20 in. of drop at 300 yds. This is a deer thumper deluxe combo!
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 19:44:58 GMT -5
:)j that is one awsome 200 yrd group. When can I look forward to seeing a repeat? I think i will just retire shooting 200yd groups now ;D I will be testing that exact set up, but using a Horn. #4500, as my uncle has a bunch of them and he wants to see how they compare. Hopefully next thurs.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 20:03:35 GMT -5
Now go to 300 yds. You should be able to keep it under 4 inches pretty easy. You will have 18-20 in. of drop at 300 yds. This is a deer thumper deluxe combo! I did shoot 300 just after seeing that. I could not get any on paper though because i did not expect the drop it had. I had 2 shots within prob. 2 inches of each other north/south and another about 6" below them ( i think i shot into a headwind on that one though). The left to right of all 3 was only prob. 3" The 2 that were close were exactly 23" low and had about 6" of wind drift with a 5mph 1/4-1/2 value wind. I got a bit cocky and decided to take in those calculations and try to ring the 10" gong we hung @ 300. I held on the far left of the gong and put my bottom post of my crosshair even with the top of the gong. I shot and to my delight i heard the report of the gong ring back at me. This was by far my best day at the range with the MZ and prob. the most fun range day i ever had with any of my toys. Not sure why that is, but i think it's because i cannot believe that a MZ can reach out there at 300yds with that hunk of lead. That and after a bunch of tips here i finally fine tuned into where i wanted to be. For a while i was just going to accept it as a decent 100yd rifle and a so/so 200yd, forget even thinking about 300. I learned alot about the wind and the BC of the bullet. I can't wait for a hair test, your right about a thumper, on both ends. I do not mind taking a little beat down for the performance though. Anyone have any thoughts on what my sabots look like?
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 1, 2011 20:14:56 GMT -5
Set up: Original 700MLS .45, Hunter's conversion & breechplug, Original 700ML camo stock that fishhawk worked his magic on. Stock: Barrel free floated, magwell filled, 3 pillars installed, upgraded recoil lug, bedded beautifully. The 3rd pillar is full size action screw instead of the flimsy OEM. 110 gr BH209, 200gr Shockwave, Harvestor light blue sabot, CCI209M primer. .77" @100yds 5 shots--5 to 7 minutes between shots. Not smokeless, but she stacks them. Smokeless build coming as soon as McGowen gets everything figured out. Sounds great, what's she chrony @? I also waited about 5-7 min. Have you tried 200?
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 1, 2011 22:28:15 GMT -5
I don't have a chronograph yet, it's on my list but I want my smokeless put together first.
I have only shot it at 100 so far, I have two sons playing baseball and another doing the horse show thing and shooting time is suffering, but I don't begrudge it too much.
This thing would not do 1.75" for 3 shots at 100 before fishhawk made it right. I'm sending all my smokeless stuff to him as soon as I figure out the barrel situation, then on to be black-iced. I'll probably have him do two more after that if he can stay off the bass tourney schedule long enough. The guy is seriously good at this stuff.
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Post by hunter on Apr 2, 2011 6:10:27 GMT -5
j1r11
The sabots look fine to me. About all of mine look similar to those. I always thought that those little cracks in the base of the sabot was caused as a result of the sabot flaring out into the grooves of the bore.
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Post by onecardchuck on Apr 2, 2011 8:17:27 GMT -5
Now that's what I am talking about. You are right where I was able to get my .50 to with this setup. Man it's great when a plan comes together isn't it. I am glad I could help you out and the sabot trimming and knurling idea helped.
I also think the slightly tighter sabot fit due to BCR use and knurling helped out to.
I agree with hunter the sabots look fine.
You are all set let me know if I can help anymore.
With the 4500's I think I had 2 to 3 inch groups at 200 and just over an inch at 100.
Keep us posted.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 2, 2011 8:59:57 GMT -5
j1r11 The sabots look fine to me. About all of mine look similar to those. I always thought that those little cracks in the base of the sabot was caused as a result of the sabot flaring out into the grooves of the bore. That makes me feel a bit better, not like i was going to change anything though ;D. The bases of my sabots with 60 gr. n120 and orange MMP's were no where near that expanded. One thing i did notice though was i do not loose any petals with this load, where as the orange MMP's would shear off 2.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 2, 2011 9:06:22 GMT -5
Now that's what I am talking about. You are right where I was able to get my .50 to with this setup. Man it's great when a plan comes together isn't it. I am glad I could help you out and the sabot trimming and knurling idea helped. I also think the slightly tighter sabot fit due to BCR use and knurling helped out to. I agree with hunter the sabots look fine. You are all set let me know if I can help anymore. With the 4500's I think I had 2 to 3 inch groups at 200 and just over an inch at 100. Keep us posted. I think the knurling really shows up at 200yds. I forgot to knurl 3 bullets for the 100yd. target above before i got to the range, so i just rolled them on blacktop pavement and it did a OK job, not good as the file, but it worked in a pinch.
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Post by Chris Champion on Apr 3, 2011 14:30:37 GMT -5
Great shooting. I agree with hunter those sabot look normal to me. BO+BCR+H4198 or N120 have put smiles on a lot of faces.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Apr 3, 2011 19:52:56 GMT -5
Great shooting. I agree with hunter those sabot look normal to me. BO+BCR+H4198 or N120 have put smiles on a lot of faces. Thanks. I think i am going to stay with h4198, it's cheaper, better velocity and ALOT easier to get. Anyone know how 4198 compares to N120 as far as cold weather reliability?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 21:09:42 GMT -5
I am not sure but i never have any problems in the cold with 4198 in the .50 or the .45 but then again the teens is about as cold as I have used them in, others will chime in...bill
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Post by tar12 on Apr 3, 2011 22:33:42 GMT -5
I dont understand why you had so much drop at 300 yds. with 70 grns of 4198 when I had only 20 in max. with 60 grns of N120.I shot the N120 exclusively for 3 seasons..2 with the .50 and last year with the .45 and have noticed no temp sensitivity at all in a wide range of temps. N120 has proven it self to me beyond doubt and is this only powder I use...this sounds like a Jim Hockey commercial... ;D
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