j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 17, 2011 23:11:18 GMT -5
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 18, 2011 13:16:51 GMT -5
update
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Post by Richard on Mar 18, 2011 14:28:42 GMT -5
Looks like you got a shooter! Richard
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Post by gunny on Mar 18, 2011 17:28:07 GMT -5
Looking good. gunny
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 18:42:44 GMT -5
sometimes bedding makes a sizeable difference, looks like yours did....good shooting
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Post by rossman40 on Mar 19, 2011 12:52:00 GMT -5
Have you tried 58gr of N120? That was the sweet spot with my rifle with N120 and 300gr bullets.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 13:36:53 GMT -5
Have you tried 58gr of N120? That was the sweet spot with my rifle with N120 and 300gr bullets. No, but i tried 57gr and best group was 2.1" @100yds. I should of added this was BEFORE the bed job.
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Post by onecardchuck on Mar 19, 2011 13:43:58 GMT -5
j1r11,
My Savage before I sold it was shooting just like yours is now. Good groups with occasional fliers. I basically did the following things to help lessen the fliers and keep the groups tight.
Knurl bullet which will help it grab the sabot and get a little tighter fit in the barrel. Cut the sabots using fingernail clippers down to the length of an MMP short sabot.
These are things that worked for my gun and will give you a few more things to try.
Hope this helps,
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Post by fishhawk on Mar 19, 2011 14:30:01 GMT -5
Many times I have found that slower will hit higher at short to medium range. The barrel lifts higher under recoil before the bullet gets out of the barrel. This will really show up with light guns, and especially handguns.
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Post by ET on Mar 19, 2011 14:40:05 GMT -5
J1r11
Nice shooting.
Just want to add one more thing to Onecardchuck’s post. You might want to try indexing your sabot to the bore. This is to get as much of 2-lands riding on each sabot petal as possible. Consistent bore resistance and better bullet support to the bore may result in more consistent groups.
Ed
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Post by fishhawk on Mar 19, 2011 14:43:09 GMT -5
The indexing is something I just brought up with j1r11 in a PM sure can't hurt. You average seems to be improved after bedding, I must have done something right. My wife don't think I'm capable! ;D
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Post by ET on Mar 19, 2011 15:15:22 GMT -5
The indexing is something I just brought up with j1r11 in a PM sure can't hurt. You average seems to be improved after bedding, I must have done something right. My wife don't think I'm capable! ;D Fishhawk Most wife’s opinions are biased IMO but you gotta love them for speaking their minds. ;D An older, wiser gentleman once said to me, if you want to know all your flaws so you can improve upon yourself, just get married because most wife’s aren’t afraid to tell you. Ed
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 15:25:50 GMT -5
j1r11, My Savage before I sold it was shooting just like yours is now. Good groups with occasional fliers. I basically did the following things to help lessen the fliers and keep the groups tight. Knurl bullet which will help it grab the sabot and get a little tighter fit in the barrel. Cut the sabots using fingernail clippers down to the length of an MMP short sabot. These are things that worked for my gun and will give you a few more things to try. Hope this helps, Would that be the same length as a BCR? As far as knurling, i have no idea what that is. The MMP's go down pretty snug and the BCR's i almost have to drop a nut to get them down (esp. starting them). I have noticed about a 30fps higher velocity with the BCR's , which i am sure is due to being super tight. I do not thing i would want them that tight if i had to reload in a treestand, but @ 10 degrees maybe they will load easier.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 15:28:38 GMT -5
Many times I have found that slower will hit higher at short to medium range. The barrel lifts higher under recoil before the bullet gets out of the barrel. This will really show up with light guns, and especially handguns. I forgot about this and this i believe could of been the cause of the slightly higher shot. Even with that high shot that group was still smaller that anything before the bedding.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 15:41:01 GMT -5
Have you tried 58gr of N120? That was the sweet spot with my rifle with N120 and 300gr bullets. No, but i tried 57gr and best group was 2.1" @100yds. I should of added this was BEFORE the bed job.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 16:08:27 GMT -5
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 16:22:18 GMT -5
J1r11 Nice shooting. Just want to add one more thing to Onecardchuck’s post. You might want to try indexing your sabot to the bore. This is to get as much of 2-lands riding on each sabot petal as possible. Consistent bore resistance and better bullet support to the bore may result in more consistent groups. Ed How is this accomplished? Never tried it before.
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Post by deadon on Mar 19, 2011 16:33:50 GMT -5
J1r11 Nice shooting. Just want to add one more thing to Onecardchuck’s post. You might want to try indexing your sabot to the bore. This is to get as much of 2-lands riding on each sabot petal as possible. Consistent bore resistance and better bullet support to the bore may result in more consistent groups. Ed How is this accomplished? Never tried it before. Look in the muzzle of your rifle and you will see the lands and groves. When you place the sabot in the rifle you want to situate it so there are 2 lands on each pedal.Since there are eight lands , when you line the sabot up correctly,with a four petal sabot, walla it is indext. If I did not make this clear, PM me and I will give you my phone # Rusty
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 19, 2011 17:52:49 GMT -5
How is this accomplished? Never tried it before. Look in the muzzle of your rifle and you will see the lands and groves. When you place the sabot in the rifle you want to situate it so there are 2 lands on each pedal.Since there are eight lands , when you line the sabot up correctly,with a four petal sabot, walla it is indext. If I did not make this clear, PM me and I will give you my phone # Rusty Gotcha, i will try that.
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Post by olsmokey on Mar 19, 2011 18:59:28 GMT -5
The way I check indexing is to take an orange MMP and blacken it with a marker and shove it down the barrel with bullet. Then use a metal marker to put a line on the end of the barrel to line up with groove on sabot. Start with the front sight screw hole and go from there. If turned just right you can get 2 lands on each petal.
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Post by jims on Mar 19, 2011 20:13:58 GMT -5
To j1r11: Nice looking setup. I do not want to bad mouth MMP sabots because overall they have worked pretty well for me but I have read here, I think tar12, can give you more information, but MMPs seem to more regularly have a flier. I do not think it is all warm barrel temperatures. I think tar 12 switched to Harvestors for that reason. PM him.
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Post by onecardchuck on Mar 19, 2011 22:03:05 GMT -5
j1r11,
The MMP short black is even shorter than the BCR the end of the sabot ends up just past the Ogive of the bullet.
ET good call on the indexing I forgot about that. I used to do mark two of the lands with a marker at the end of a the muzzle so it was easy to find them at the range or in a tree.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 20, 2011 15:54:21 GMT -5
I did not have to make a index mark because i just line up a split in the sabot with my front site hole and i am now getting 2 lands on each petal all the way to the end of the sabot, and i have also trimmed some of my orange MMP's to just past the ogive and i bet i trimmed off 1/8".
On the bathroom scale with either bullet i am using and orange MMP's i am getting about 60lbs of loading force and the rifle weighs in @ 10lbs, so i guess that would make 50 lbs of loading force, correct? Is that too much? I think i like the idea of knurling, but i don't think i need more loading pressure, but the bullet will grip the sabot better that way hence optimal spinning, correct?
I did not have anymore of the BCR's to check loading pressure.
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Post by ET on Mar 20, 2011 20:14:40 GMT -5
J1r11
50lbs of loading pressure is okay IMO.
What might be helpful here is knowing your loading procedure. I myself dry swab between shots and do a semi bore cleaning after 4-shots with my SS barrel. How are you allowing barrel cooling to occur and for how long?
From your targets it appears that the 3rd shot is the one that drifts out of the groups. This suggests to me either bore fouling or bore heat may be doing this.
I know all this info and steps may seem to be getting complicated but many of us have gone through this to discover what works best for us. Once you find what works best for your setup it just comes automatic how you approach loading for accuracy.
Ed
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 21, 2011 0:40:23 GMT -5
J1r11 50lbs of loading pressure is okay IMO. What might be helpful here is knowing your loading procedure. I myself dry swab between shots and do a semi bore cleaning after 4-shots with my SS barrel. How are you allowing barrel cooling to occur and for how long? From your targets it appears that the 3rd shot is the one that drifts out of the groups. This suggests to me either bore fouling or bore heat may be doing this. I know all this info and steps may seem to be getting complicated but many of us have gone through this to discover what works best for us. Once you find what works best for your setup it just comes automatic how you approach loading for accuracy. Ed I do not dry swab or clean at the range and only clean the barrel after 30 shots or so. I only shot 10 times the other day inc. 1 bore sight/clean barrel shot. My rifle does not seem to care if it's dirty or clean. I use a spin jag starter and loader for all shots. At 45 degrees i let the barrel cool for 5-10 min. I do not have a cooling rod, although i will be getting one. My last 6 shots were my best groups, so i doubt fouling. I ran a dry patch through when i got home and it was not very dirty at all.
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Post by ET on Mar 21, 2011 4:11:04 GMT -5
J1r11
A cooling rod without the cold pod is what I also employ. As for cooling time even with the cooling rod I use 10-minutes between shots even in cool weather. Allowing the barrel to return to ambient temperature makes a big difference for me.
With the previous advise suggested to try it’s time for another range visit.
Ed
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Post by onecardchuck on Mar 21, 2011 7:16:58 GMT -5
j1R11,
About an 1/8 th of an inch off the sabots sounds right. I used a flat ended nail clipper and I made a wood insert cut to the cup size of an MMP short black sabot and then put that inside each sabot and them trimmed to the top of the wood insert.
If this helps that is the easiest way I have found to trim sabots.
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Post by rangeball on Mar 21, 2011 8:54:37 GMT -5
My Savage before I sold it Say what? What are you shooting now?
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Post by onecardchuck on Mar 21, 2011 9:11:13 GMT -5
Rangeball,
Sent you a pm so to not high jack this thread.
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