|
Post by bteague on Mar 10, 2015 17:10:17 GMT -5
The threads are an effective seal except in someones mind and to say they do nothing is ridiculous! edge. The threads have NO sealing ability at all.. I am surprised that you would even think that they do.. Totally amazing.. You can continue to believe in your theory but it is incorrect. We can go on and on about this like we do over what primer is best, I know for a fact you can not make a seal of any kind with a machine thread... With out the snout or shoulder on these plugs they will leak.. Period... But what do I know,, Jeff Hankins.. You guys should be in Congress.
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Mar 10, 2015 17:13:45 GMT -5
The threads are an effective seal except in someones mind and to say they do nothing is ridiculous! edge. Then my ML's are ridiculous. WITH plenty of teflon tape, they do not leak around the OD threads....without.... totally different story. We make vapor tight conveyors where I work. They have to be totally sealed to keep hexane gas from escaping, and we have to make certain the machines will not leak. No way do we depend on threads doing any sealing. During pressure testing, if a seal fails there is leakage around the bolt heads. When that happens, we have to dismantle that particular piece and replace the seal. The only threads that have a prayer of sealing are pipe threads.
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 17:23:36 GMT -5
Yes, maybe we should be,, . When you have someone that believes it something and is willing to lay it on the line and defend it to the very end,,that indeed is what we need in congress.. Unfortunately I don't know much about politics except all politicians are corrupt, thieves and liars, so I wouldn't fit in there,, but I do know a lot about the fundamentals of machine threads., although someone thinks I don't... Lol...
Edge and I are just having a little spat that will be settled soon,, and I hope you guys don't get to tired of our fussing.. It's all good on my end...
Jeff Hankins...
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 10, 2015 18:11:06 GMT -5
Agree to disagree didn't last long!! The new plug definitely seals and I would bet my dollars that Luke's plug seals much easier and better at high pressure than the front seal/headspacing design. You are right, Hankins could have left it alone, but he couldn't help himself! Unfortunately the head of a bolt is not any more of a seal than the threads are, it is the quality of the BP and the quality of the breech machining that make for a better seal. I will buy you a new plug with poorly machined threads and it will leak like any BP that does not fit properly, not only that I will make a properly machined plub with only 3/4 of that flange and it will seal just as well as long as you lock it down just as tight! If you wanted to say you lapped the two together to make a near perfect seal then that would add something...but don't forget what Jeff himself wrote, when you fire the rifle the breech stretches and unless you are using a torque wrench and exceed the thrust of the charge that flange LEAVES the face and does not contact anything during firing! If you fire a 60kpsi load in a 45 the face of the BP will see about 9,000 lbs of thrust and unless you have pre-stressed the bolt above that point it will move...PERIOD! edge.
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 10, 2015 18:18:05 GMT -5
dannoboone, Apples and oranges!
A seal does not need to be leakproof to work, it needs to hold the gasses back long enough for "X" to take place! YOU ON THE OTHER HAND NEED ZERO LEAKAGE OVER EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME!
The BP needs to slow things down for a few microseconds!
Tell me this, is teflon tape capable of holding back 60,000 psi? No, but for most folks it fills the gaps for the small amount of time until the bullet leaves the bore...that is all it needs to do!
edge.
PS why don't you show your company the revolutionary new sealing bolt created by Hankins, then you won't have to worry about leaks and a much easier threading process to boot!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 18:19:24 GMT -5
Alright now...... Let's talk about tater guns or something. What gives a better seal... Idahoes, Russets or Sweet Taters? ? Luke, congrats on a good looking design. It looks well made. Kyle
|
|
|
Post by rambler on Mar 10, 2015 18:22:15 GMT -5
Alright now...... Let's talk about tater guns or something. What gives a better seal... Idahoes, Russets or Sweet Taters? ? Luke, congrats on a good looking design. It looks well made. Kyle My tater of choice was a plain 'ol white tater. Preferred propellant was Aqua Net
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 18:25:14 GMT -5
Alright now...... Let's talk about tater guns or something. What gives a better seal... Idahoes, Russets or Sweet Taters? ? Luke, congrats on a good looking design. It looks well made. Kyle My tater of choice was a plain 'ol white tater. Preferred propellant was Aqua Net         Back in '02 we used to use white rain and a Coleman lantern striker. I think idahos are the way to go!!! Kyle
|
|
|
Post by jeff on Mar 10, 2015 18:43:03 GMT -5
dannoboone, Apples and oranges! A seal does not need to be leakproof to work, it needs to hold the gasses back long enough for "X" to take place! YOU ON THE OTHER HAND NEED ZERO LEAKAGE OVER EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME! The BP needs to slow things down for a few microseconds! Tell me this, is teflon tape capable of holding back 60,000 psi? No, but for most folks it fills the gaps for the small amount of time until the bullet leaves the bore...that is all it needs to do! edge. PS why don't you show your company the revolutionary new sealing bolt created by Hankins, then you won't have to worry about leaks and a much easier threading process to boot! Why not settle this face to face at the Kentucky Challenge? I'll buy a ticket!
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 18:50:19 GMT -5
Edge.. I just can't leave it alone when these guys are being mis-lead to believe that threads will create a seal.
Take a savage plug of the highest quality. Put a small nick in the snout and screw it in your barrel as tight as you can and fire it... See for yourself if it leaks or not.. What you are saying is that it don't matter if the bottom of the snout is even cut square, that by tightening the plug will make the threads creat a seal.. Then why does everyone need one of bills barrel lapping tools...
What creates the seal on my magical bolts is that the head is machined perfectly square, so that when tightened up against a perfectly machined square barrel shoulder you will get a seal... We are not talking about some second class 1/2-13 bolt you by at the hardware store...
I'm sorry but I can't give in... It would be like telling someone to shoot smokeless powders from there ultimate...
Jeff Hankins...
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 18:57:17 GMT -5
! [/quote]Why not settle this face to face at the Kentucky Challenge? I'll buy a ticket! [/quote] Jeff... The Kentucky Challenge is for fun and games, not settling disputes. All who attended the first one can attest to that... Jeff Hankins..
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 19:29:57 GMT -5
Edge..
Whatever term I use to describe my magic bolts it can be construed into something someone wants it to be.. Perfectly square, or at a perfect 90 degrees what does it matter..
As far as working from prints. I have done that, but most of my career has been as a fabricator, designer.. I work with broken parts to create a new one.. I have to make my own prints and most if the time I just keep it all up stairs in my head..
Looks like both of our heads are very hard.....
Jeff Hankins...
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 10, 2015 20:24:34 GMT -5
SNIP. Looks like both of our heads are very hard..... Jeff Hankins... How about we just leave it there edge.
|
|
|
Post by ratsnakeboogy on Mar 10, 2015 20:48:18 GMT -5
Cabin fever? Glad it's getting warmer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 20:52:21 GMT -5
one thing for sure, If we did a RC test on head hardness you two would BOTH be off the scale
|
|
|
Post by lwh723 on Mar 10, 2015 21:03:27 GMT -5
Hey, how about my new plug?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 21:05:54 GMT -5
It's at the top of the board and you might break some page records! It's a long overdue design that finally someone (Luke) had the motivation and drive to put into a production unit for us. Thanks Luke!
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 21:14:47 GMT -5
Cabin fever? Glad it's getting warmer. Cabin fever is right.. I been sitting at work for 7 hours waiting for my train to come in.... Got nothing else to do except argue with Edge and Myers... Even though we argue we still have common ground... Luke.. As for your plug.. Look at what it started.. A five page thread and its all about the design and how much better it will seal over the Savage plug.. Although we got a little carried away and might have, should have started a new thread about threads it's a very good, well thought out design... Something every one will benefit from and will be the go to plug from here on out for using 209 primers.. Jeff Hankins...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 21:15:00 GMT -5
What plug?
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 21:17:27 GMT -5
What plug? That plug we've all been talking about for the last couple days.. You know,, the one that seals from the rear... Lol... Jeff Hankins...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 21:18:47 GMT -5
Argue?? Shoot we are just tickling each other! If I didn't have Jeff to fight with the board would get boring. I have a box of lead if anyone would like to test his head for brinell hardness all good Jeff I will even behave when I come down this fall.... Well I'll try
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 21:19:08 GMT -5
Great plug Luke, thanks for "gittin r done". Now you are going to cost me more money....I'll have to try them, which will mean even more builds.. Thanks for a great option on future builds tho seriously. Dave W do not respond to this post! I know what you're gonna say before you even say it!
|
|
|
Post by airborneike on Mar 10, 2015 21:34:40 GMT -5
Luke, Who woulda thunk a little bitty piece of steel could cause all this commotion! Yes, much thought and trial and error and foul language and bunches of little metal chips and additions to the scrap bucket Might try to put together a tutorial for installation if you are not opposed and if there is interest. Best, Mike
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 10, 2015 21:58:49 GMT -5
Ya'll obviously were not around when Edge and I were going head to head on Savage recoil lugs I will add this: When I took off the old PN barrel the other day and I got a good look in at the shoulder............I could see contact on 1/3 of it (there was a shiny surface) while the rest of the shoulder wad blackened. My breech plug which was and has been installed with a couple of wraps of YELLOW telon tape, showed no signs of being compromised (leaking past them)? So, in my mind, the threads with the tape did not allow pressure to flow out towards the bolt face. The area around the hex head was perfectly clean. So based on that, I would have to throw a little more credence towards Edge on this subject. I would still opt for Luke's design and I will still use yellow teflon tape on it! Richard
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 22:04:09 GMT -5
Richard was your contact 1/3 around or 1/3 the width of the sealing surface? My question was probably clear as mud but I don't know how else to ask it. My experience has been that several barrels only hit ~1/3 "around" those plugs usually have discoloration on the corresponding side.
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Mar 10, 2015 22:13:09 GMT -5
Hey, how about my new plug? Superior design!
|
|
|
Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 23:36:09 GMT -5
Ya'll obviously were not around when Edge and I were going head to head on Savage recoil lugs I will add this: When I took off the old PN barrel the other day and I got a good look in at the shoulder............I could see contact on 1/3 of it (there was a shiny surface) while the rest of the shoulder wad blackened. My breech plug which was and has been installed with a couple of wraps of YELLOW telon tape, showed no signs of being compromised (leaking past them)? So, in my mind, the threads with the tape did not allow pressure to flow out towards the bolt face. The area around the hex head was perfectly clean. So based on that, I would have to throw a little more credence towards Edge on this subject. I would still opt for Luke's design and I will still use yellow teflon tape on it! Richard Richard.
Do you think the plug would leak without the Teflon tape... Obvious you think it would or you wouldn't be using it.. So I rest my case once again.. The threads have no sealing ability. It is the Teflon tape that gets crunched up in between the threads that makes the seal. With out the tape you will have a leak.
Come on guys...... a little common sense goes a long way here....
Jeff Hankins.
|
|
|
Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Mar 11, 2015 0:06:29 GMT -5
I had my first issue with blowing a primer in the bushing plug i got from Luke years ago yesterday... I hadnt cleaned it in Lord knows when (flame channel around 1/16" and I used to much tape on it. Cleaned it, used the correct amount of tape and bam... back to the never misfired BP I been using (same bushing as well) for 3+ years. I love it. I havent had any gas cutting issues yet either. Now his new plug has taken my interest!!
|
|
|
Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 11, 2015 5:27:54 GMT -5
Why not settle this face to face at the Kentucky Challenge? I'll buy a ticket! [/quote] Jeff... The Kentucky Challenge is for fun and games, not settling disputes. All who attended the first one can attest to that... Jeff Hankins.. [/quote] and lets.PLEASE keep it that way drop
|
|
|
Post by rangeball on Mar 11, 2015 10:48:42 GMT -5
I use tape so the BP doesn't seize. Never gave it helping hold pressure a second thought. Don't know how it could as it's so d**n fragile fresh off the roll.
|
|