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Post by kahuner on Nov 15, 2014 12:10:23 GMT -5
I'm looking for feedback from those that have used Remington's new 700 Ultimate muzzleloader.
I think the question is inevitable ................. has anyone tried smokeless in the new Remington? What would it take to be able to shoot smokeless? A barrel change? And if I did a barrel swap, could I put on a barrel that is sabot-less?
This is my first post and as you can see, I'm "thirsty for knowledge"!!
Thanks, Kahuner
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 16, 2014 1:16:43 GMT -5
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Post by rambler on Nov 16, 2014 9:06:01 GMT -5
kahuner: Take the time to read the entire thread that GMB54-120 pasted in the post above. Its very entertaining at the least.
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Post by kahuner on Nov 16, 2014 10:21:42 GMT -5
Yes Rambler; I read the entire thread. As hard as I tried to find the info on my own (before posting) I didn't find the thread that GMB54 referred me to. Makes me feel muy stupido!! Especially the part about using smokeless in the Ultimate Remington. I know better than that. My questions should've revolved around converting a 700 Ultimate, not using smokeless in one.
I really want to buy or build a rifle that is sabotless & smokeless but I don't know the first thing about it. Which parts to use, actions, barrels etc. I own a Savage 10ML-10ll so I am familiar with smokeless. The thought of going the next step to sabotless is intriguing. The Rem 700 would make a good "host rifle" wouldn't it?
I'd like to talk to someone who can provide me with some direction and barrels and parts that I'll need. I could use the contact info.
Thanks, Kahuner
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Post by rambler on Nov 16, 2014 10:30:24 GMT -5
Just your standard Rem. 700ml would make a good donor gun. There are lots of guys on this board that will be more than happy to help out getting you started down the smokeless path and I'm sure they'll read this thread and chime in soon.
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Post by jims on Nov 16, 2014 11:33:46 GMT -5
kahunter: There are smokeless builds that come up on the buy/sell here on occasion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 21:08:18 GMT -5
Yes Rambler; I read the entire thread. As hard as I tried to find the info on my own (before posting) I didn't find the thread that GMB54 referred me to. Makes me feel muy stupido!! Especially the part about using smokeless in the Ultimate Remington. I know better than that. My questions should've revolved around converting a 700 Ultimate, not using smokeless in one.
I really want to buy or build a rifle that is sabotless & smokeless but I don't know the first thing about it. Which parts to use, actions, barrels etc. I own a Savage 10ML-10ll so I am familiar with smokeless. The thought of going the next step to sabotless is intriguing. The Rem 700 would make a good "host rifle" wouldn't it?
I'd like to talk to someone who can provide me with some direction and barrels and parts that I'll need. I could use the contact info.
Thanks, Kahuner
IMO, you have the cheapest route to go in your possession already. (Since you already own a savage ml) Get you a 45, 40 or whatever caliber barrel you want to go with, a recoil lug, a new bushing plug and an upgraded stock if you like and you're in business. Luke can hook you up with everything you need and many guys here could put it together for you. Myers 129 may still have a 400/408 barrel for sale if you were interested in going with a 40 cal. Your options are endless but you have a good starting platform in your hands... Not that you couldn't go another route if you wanted, this is just a suggestion. Ask for help in the smokeless thread section and the builders will likely speak up. Good luck whichever way you decide to go. |
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Post by muzzleman 54 on Nov 17, 2014 10:40:20 GMT -5
my rem. 700 ml. conversion shoots so good iam not even thinking about buying the new Remington. maybe if I didn't have a smokless I would get one. just my opinion.
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Post by kahuner on Nov 18, 2014 10:15:43 GMT -5
Got the answers to my questions and the info I needed after some informative conversations with a couple of gun builders. Now at least I understand the basics.
I've decided to have my new Rem 700 Ultimate converted to a smokeless/ sabot-less 45 cal. Thanks to everyone for the help!
Can't wait to get the new rifle in my hands!!
Kahuner |
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Post by muzzleman 54 on Nov 18, 2014 15:35:01 GMT -5
good luck. you will love it !
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Post by yule on Nov 23, 2014 6:21:49 GMT -5
You may want to try the 50 cal THOR bullets in your Savage. That is your quickest, and least expensive way, to go sabotless.
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Post by kahuner on Nov 23, 2014 16:08:16 GMT -5
Picked-up a new Rem 700 Ultimate muzzleloader today. Just got home and saw the updates to my thread.
Muzzleman; thanks for your input and good wishes. My only reservation is that having my Ultimate converted to 45 cal is a lot of money and I don't intend on loading it w/ 78 gr of 4198. I'm visually disabled and couldn't execute a 500 yd shot to save my life. Secondly in MN even w/ my disability I can only use a 1X scope. With a 45 cal conversion; I feel like I'm getting into a new sport called "muzzleloader racing"!! 5000 ft/lbs is ............. well................. I it's think going one mountain too far!! I'll just have to "whoa that bad boy up"!!
What sold me is that it is such a slick set-up. Easy to load, accurate, it's a system that's all figured out!! No R&D or "science projects" required!! (wink)
Yule;
Did they call you "Lettuce" in high school? I think they probably did because you were the one w/ a head on your shoulders!! Thor bullets is one swoopty suggestion!! Never knew they even existed. Thank you!!
Our muzzleloader season here in MN opens this next Sat. for 2 weeks. Just enough time (prior to opening) to get sighted-in.
I'm on the new DNR program here in Minn-E-snow-ta; "shoot and release".  It's an extension of the program I was on in the Summer which was "fillet and release". I don't see a reason to complain! (chuckling)
Kahuner over & out!! |
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Post by jims on Nov 23, 2014 20:24:26 GMT -5
Keep us posted how it all works (shoots) out.
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Post by encore50a on Nov 24, 2014 8:17:35 GMT -5
I would suggest that with your brass, keep the re-priming of the cases lower than is recommended by Remington. Keep close watch inside the case for ANY blow back and if you see it start in a case, throw the case out and don't use it again. Your cases after firing should be completely clean inside the case, with primer residue ONLY in the flash hole, NOT in the case. The case is compressed against the nipple by the bolt and repeated re-priming and the closing of the bolt, compresses the brass which over time can allow blowback. A BAD THING.
I know, I've been through it with Remington's big brother............
I now have 1,000 pieces of brass and when shooting, I de-prime my brass, clean the primer pocket and put it in a large container marked, "Once Fired". I do not re-prime the brass, only new brass gets primed. Once I run out of new brass, I'll prime my "once fired" for the second time, the last time. Your results may vary.
Looking forward to range reports.... |
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Post by kahuner on Nov 24, 2014 13:08:22 GMT -5
encore;
Since first reading your reply earlier this morning, I have tried to find info as to how many times the brass can be reprimed according to Remington. I found nothing........ notta.......zip......... jackshit! Must be something Remington is really proud to talk about.
If repriming only 2 times is about the average.......... that just chaps my a55!! I'm glad my Remington Ultimate is getting converted!! I'm only going to use the Remington for this year's muzzleloader season (starts this Saturday for 2 weeks) and then it gets shipped to Jeff. Case service life of only twice, to be safe, is total nonsense!! No wonder the price has come down from the projected retail of $1200. Boughyt mine for $800 even.
Thanks again for the "head's-up" encore!
Kahuner
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Post by encore50a on Nov 24, 2014 15:43:51 GMT -5
The problem I ran into was a gas cut breech plug, which required replacement. Now at first I thought it was because I had been shooting BH, which by the way IS NOT recommended by UF. After the issue was completely over and I had much more time to think things over, I'm positive it was because I primed the brass to many times. Long story on that but I'm convinced.
Now I've read by "writers" that the RU brass has been re-primed up to a dozen times, yet the recommendation is only five times. I understand the whole concept much better now and there's no way in heii I'd prime them more than three times. Maybe the .308 brass holds up better than my .45WM brass but, twice for me is the limit.
Good luck. |
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Post by xpshooter on Nov 24, 2014 20:14:56 GMT -5
Kahuner Since your taking the barrel off I would like to buy it Terry |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 20:32:15 GMT -5
Fyi ..the Hankins primer carrier holds up for at least a hundred shots...
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Post by rambler on Nov 24, 2014 20:41:59 GMT -5
Fyi ..the Hankins primer carrier holds up for at least a hundred shots... I believe Jeff is even putting in tungsten bushings now so it would good for a very long time. |
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Post by kahuner on Nov 25, 2014 9:13:05 GMT -5
xpsshooter; I sent you a pm.
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Post by kahuner on Nov 25, 2014 17:48:52 GMT -5
I am so jazzed about the conversion to 45 cal smokeless/ sabot-less................... I think I'm going to go off and have a "special moment" w/ myself!!
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Post by rambler on Nov 25, 2014 18:40:31 GMT -5
I am so jazzed about the conversion to 45 cal smokeless/ sabot-less................... I think I'm going to go off and have a "special moment" w/ myself!! Way way too much info |
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Post by rambler on Nov 25, 2014 18:42:13 GMT -5
I am so jazzed about the conversion to 45 cal smokeless/ sabot-less................... I think I'm going to go off and have a "special moment" w/ myself!! Way way too much info |
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Post by azhunter on Dec 9, 2014 20:24:06 GMT -5
Hello gents, I am new to the board but I have a bit of experience with the UF MZL. I have shot up to 125 grains (weighted) of BH209 with zero problems. I get a mv of 2550fps with a 300 grain Parker MH. I normally use 105 gr with a 250 grain Barnes. That load is ~2400 fps. There has been no gas cutting whatsoever. That being said, I only reprime the brass 2x. I have 2 deer kills in AZ but used 200gr of T7 for more velocity. That being said, one was at 387 yards and witnessed by Jabe Warner, guide for AZ Strip Guides. It was a clean kill, straight through the pumper. This year, one taken at 465 yards. I was by myself, so I guess it doesn't count  I have just picked up a Bad Bull and can't wait to shoot it and compare. |
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Post by jims on Dec 9, 2014 22:24:26 GMT -5
Those are indeed long shots.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Dec 10, 2014 5:07:47 GMT -5
I have just picked up a Bad Bull and can't wait to shoot it and compare. Post those results because I'm interested in comparing your Bad Bull results with the ones I have been involved with in a friend's gun over the last year. |
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Post by azhunter on Dec 10, 2014 12:22:02 GMT -5
Will do. it should be a week or so.
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Post by kahuner on Dec 10, 2014 16:45:29 GMT -5
azhyunter;
Did you mention that you've been using BH 209 in your rifle to Ken? I'd be interested to know what he said.
There's something about the ignition system on the UML and, that for the most part would apply to the Rem 700 UML (which I have) AND I'm eager to learn the nuisances of the system. Be it the brass, BH 209 itself what- ev. There's something missing in my understanding the whole issue.
I'll say thing; ya da Man shootin' loads like that!!
Me; I'm a "little whimpy girly sissy-ass man"!! What's wrong w/ a 22LR anyway?
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Post by encore50a on Dec 10, 2014 20:52:33 GMT -5
azhyunter;
Did you mention that you've been using BH 209 in your rifle to Ken? I'd be interested to know what he said.
There's something about the ignition system on the UML and, that for the most part would apply to the Rem 700 UML (which I have) AND I'm eager to learn the nuisances of the system. Be it the brass, BH 209 itself what- ev. There's something missing in my understanding the whole issue.
I'll say thing; ya da Man shootin' loads like that!!
Me; I'm a "little whimpy girly sissy-ass man"!! What's wrong w/ a 22LR anyway?
I can tell you what Ken will say about shooting BH from the Ultimate Firearms muzzleloader............ DON'T.
He'll tell you that the ignition system is designed specifically for shooting pellets, which it does very well. However it will ignite and shoot BH. azhunter was correct when he said he doesn't re-prime more than twice with the cases. That.......... is where things went wrong for me, I'm certain.
Its rare that Ken ever replaces a breech plug in his rifles. Mine was the 4th and all 4 had been shooting BH.
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Post by azhunter on Dec 11, 2014 10:46:55 GMT -5
Yes, I have talked with Ken and he did say not to shoot BH209. That was after at least 100 rounds of (WEIGHED 105gr BH209). Keep in mind, that's only about 150 grains by volume. That's now where near the 200 grain black powder or substitute maximum. With 105gr of BH209, I get a MV of 2400 +\- with a 250 grain Barnes TMZ. I get 2280 fps with a 300 Parker MH. With 125 grains it can push a 300 grain Parker Match Hunter to 2550fps. That's moving.... To put that in perspective, that's only 250fps slower than my .338 Lapua. I wish the Parker had the same BC of .818 Triple 7 velocity is higher in the UF muzzleloader than BH209 ONLY because I don't push it. At 200gr of T7, I get a first round mv of 2525 fps with a 250 grain Barnes TMZ. I get ~2300 with a 275gr Parker MH. BH209 is marketed as a black powder substitute and legal to shoot in AZ. Frankly, it shoots great and has considerably less fouling. You notice I didn't say, no fouling..... Getting a second round down the tube with T7 after the first shot is wishful thinking without cleaning. I don't use Bore Butter (but it works) but it affects velocity too much depending on temps. So, I just clean after every round, even in the field. If you do your part, the UF muzzleloader is very accurate and well made. I have nothing but good things to say. Shooting BH209 has been fantastic in my muzzleloader and I have not seen any ill effects, yet. I also use 200 grains of T7. I don't push the load, the UF BP Xpress doesn't need to. That being said, those are my results. I will post the Bad Bull and UF comparison soon. |
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