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Post by encore50a on Dec 11, 2014 12:27:47 GMT -5
azhunter
How are you getting the sabots to hold up with the TMZ bullets shooting heavy charges?
I've had discussions with Barnes about shooting heavy charges from my Ultimate, specifically the TMZ. They told me they couldn't get the sabots to hold up themselves, even with sub-bases.
Randy Johnson told me that he's shot the 290gr T-EZ bullet (flat base) using the H5045LB with excellent accuracy. I tried it and couldn't get a group under 4" at 300yds, knurled. Without knurling, the groups were much larger.
Shooting the UF BP Xpress, 3-T7M pellets and Ken's 300gr WM bullets currently. |
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Post by ping on Dec 11, 2014 16:00:41 GMT -5
4" at 300 yards is great accuracy for some..
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Post by encore50a on Dec 11, 2014 19:26:18 GMT -5
4" at 300 yards is great accuracy for some.. Yes sir, I agree 100%.
However with a different bullet, not of my choice, I can group 1.65" at 300yds. My bullet of choice, is the Barnes.
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Post by azhunter on Dec 11, 2014 22:53:29 GMT -5
The charges of BH209 are not that stiff at 105gr (weighed). At 125gr you get some recoil. The yellow sabots hold up just fine BUT you cannot shoot more than 2 rounds without a cool down. The sabot will fail for sure on the 4th round and occasionally on the 3rd. This holds true to T7 also. It looks like an octopus when the sabot does fail. It's not hard to miss.
Groups around 4" at 300 are about 1.33 MOA. That is easily minute of deer. I would not worry about that. You have to remember, the drop at anything past 400 becomes very steep. The difference between 400 and 500 yards is almost 50"!!!!! I would be more worried about having the correct yardage than a .5 moa.
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Post by encore50a on Dec 12, 2014 8:43:53 GMT -5
The charges of BH209 are not that stiff at 105gr (weighed). At 125gr you get some recoil. The yellow sabots hold up just fine BUT you cannot shoot more than 2 rounds without a cool down. The sabot will fail for sure on the 4th round and occasionally on the 3rd. This holds true to T7 also. It looks like an octopus when the sabot does fail. It's not hard to miss. Groups around 4" at 300 are about 1.33 MOA. That is easily minute of deer. I would not worry about that. You have to remember, the drop at anything past 400 becomes very steep. The difference between 400 and 500 yards is almost 50"!!!!! I would be more worried about having the correct yardage than a .5 moa. I tried the 290 TMZ, shooting 3-T7M pellets and the sabots failed. I'm not just talking about the skirt being ripped up by passing through the brake. Shooting T7, I must swab between shots. I've shot the 290gr flat base Barnes, using the H5045LB sabots, which hold up, but the groups are unexceptable to me so far. My zero is 200yds, using the CDS turret, which is spot on to 400yds. |
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Post by azhunter on Dec 12, 2014 11:43:30 GMT -5
My only guess is the pressure getting the 290gr bullet moving with the T7 magnum load. I do shoot T7, 200 grains (pellets), and a Barnes 250 gr bullet with no problems. Drop the 290 and try a 250. It should reduce pressure enough to get it flying right. It shoots great in my rifle. It's my go to load for reduced lead areas (e.g Kaibab).
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Post by encore50a on Dec 12, 2014 11:51:02 GMT -5
My only guess is the pressure getting the 290gr bullet moving with the T7 magnum load. I do shoot T7, 200 grains (pellets), and a Barnes 250 gr bullet with no problems. Drop the 290 and try a 250. It should reduce pressure enough to get it flying right. It shoots great in my rifle. It's my go to load for reduced lead areas (e.g Kaibab). The 250gr that you're using, is it the TMZ or the T-EZ? Is it with the supplied sabots?
Hope you don't say the 250gr TMZ, I just let 400 rounds go with a Pro Hunter I just sold........
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Post by azhunter on Dec 12, 2014 11:58:46 GMT -5
I grabbed the package. They are the 250 gr Spitfire TMZ with yellow sabot. It's product # 45180. I also have the 250 grain T-EZ, product # 45182 with blue sabots. I have not shot them yet. I bought those by accident. I see no reason to fix what isn't broken  .
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Post by encore50a on Dec 12, 2014 12:15:18 GMT -5
I grabbed the package. They are the 250 gr Spitfire TMZ with yellow sabot. It's product # 45180. I also have the 250 grain T-EZ, product # 45182 with blue sabots. I have not shot them yet. I bought those by accident. I see no reason to fix what isn't broken . Just great  I just let 400 rounds go. Barnes has been all I've shot for years, I just never tried the 250's from the Ultimate. I was tried the 290's and when the sabots failed, I gave up on shooting the 250's. Sounds like a big mistake. Thank you, I'll try them. |
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Post by encore50a on Dec 12, 2014 14:44:17 GMT -5
Back to the Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader.........
Just talked to a dealer I know, who has sold three rifles. Two will shoot fair groups at 100yds, the third he had to send back to Remington. He couldn't hit a 4'x4' piece of cardboard at 37 YARDS. |
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Post by sgellis on Dec 14, 2014 19:45:50 GMT -5
Can the firing pin strike the breech plug on either of these "Ultimate" versions when dry firing? Is there a need, or has anyone fabricated a snap cap from an ignition case for dry firing?? Seems decapping one of the cases for ignition, then filling the empty primer pocket with cork, rubber, leather, RTV silicone, shoe-goo, etc., would be a good idea. In addition, when leaving the rifle loaded during hunting season, the breech would not be sealed from moisture when the live ignition case is removed. To me, sounds like an additional good idea to have one of these dummy/snap cases fabricated, possibly with the head bright orange for safety, to keep the chamber sealed during the long storage times of the hunting season. Thoughts? Thanks |
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Post by encore50a on Dec 15, 2014 12:55:19 GMT -5
Can the firing pin strike the breech plug on either of these "Ultimate" versions when dry firing? Is there a need, or has anyone fabricated a snap cap from an ignition case for dry firing?? Seems decapping one of the cases for ignition, then filling the empty primer pocket with cork, rubber, leather, RTV silicone, shoe-goo, etc., would be a good idea. In addition, when leaving the rifle loaded during hunting season, the breech would not be sealed from moisture when the live ignition case is removed. To me, sounds like an additional good idea to have one of these dummy/snap cases fabricated, possibly with the head bright orange for safety, to keep the chamber sealed during the long storage times of the hunting season. Thoughts? Thanks Question #1.......... No, not on the UF Inc. rifle
Question #2.......... There is no need but, if you wanted you could use a spent case.
I just went through my first hunting season with my UF Inc. rifle. I had no problems and the weather here, well I can't tell you what I really thing but, it was nothing but moisture. I left it loaded for 5 days, then fired the round, completely cleaned the rifle and scope, then loaded it back up. Final cleaning for the season was last night. Zero issues.
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Post by sgellis on Dec 15, 2014 19:35:40 GMT -5
I've created a service ticket with their service department. They're to get back with me tomorrow, hopefully, with answers to my questions reference the breech plug. Going to prove or disprove, that their breech plugs are of close tolerance, so that spares can be purchased and installed by the end user, without concerns for change in headspace. If that is correct, I'm gonna get a spare or two to keep in my tool box. I'll also confirm the 700 with breech plug is same as the 700 chambered for center-fire cartridges, to be dry fired routinely without damage. Otherwise, I'll make a snap cap from an ignition case. later |
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Post by sgellis on Dec 19, 2014 20:33:19 GMT -5
Remington replied, they were very helpful. Dry Firing: Unlike the 700 chambered for a center-fire rifle cartridge, they do not recommend dry firing this model as a matter of practice, because of the breech plug in the path of the pin. Simple enough, I'll quickly make up a handful of snap caps out of decapped ignition cases. That way, I can get in a fair amount of dry firing trigger time. In addition, I'll make the case heads safety orange and they'll double as seals for the chamber to prevent any moisture from sucking through the fire channel during periods of making the rifle safe when afield hunting, as the channel is fairly large on the Rem version. Breech Plug: Yes, they are CNC of close tolerance and can be interchanged without any headspace issues, provided they are seated and torqued to 100-in/lbs. It is an end user operation that does not require any trip back to the factory. So you can purchase and keep spare breech plugs on hand to replace at your whim and fancy. Remington gave me the part # and a 1(800) number to call M-F 9a-5p EST to purchase spare plugs. Full retail, they are $46.55 each. So, I'll start off by recapping the factory ignition cases around two or three times and set them aside while working up loads. After I'm done working up loads, I'll take those used ignition cases and sacrifice a couple breech plugs by running a lot of these recapped ignition cases until I can establish an average for when they begin to fail at the seal and leak. Whatever that number of times recapped works out to be, say five, six, seven, or even more times, I'll just back off a couple times from that point and use that as a benchmark for case life. If at any time I begin to see the breech plug degrade from this point, I'll just take the few minutes to swap it out with a new one. Seems very easy peasy to me. As an added measure of insurance, even though they call for the fire channel to self clean for its normal installed service life, I grabbed a few extended torch nozzle tip cleaner picks. Only cost a couple buck and have on hand the correct size, and the next couple sizes smaller. So at this point, the entire system should be about as simple, user friendly, and low maintenance as it comes, to operate trouble free over a long period of time. I'll post updates when available. Will be developing loads next month. later |
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Post by encore50a on Dec 22, 2014 7:15:38 GMT -5
Read a report of a shooter getting 4" 300yd groups this morning from his RU.
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I just let 400 rounds go. Barnes has been all I've shot for years, I just never tried the 250's from the Ultimate. I was tried the 290's and when the sabots failed, I gave up on shooting the 250's. Sounds like a big mistake. Thank you, I'll try them.