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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 17, 2011 23:13:11 GMT -5
On the late Rick Bibby's rocket fuel pages, he makes mention of a breech plug he modded instead of using the Savage. Has shorter snout, more threads, smaller internal volume and different alloy- more suited to the 45. Are these available commercially?
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 18, 2011 1:01:34 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Champion on Jan 18, 2011 13:16:49 GMT -5
Those pictures are of the breech plugs that Rick supplied with my rifle. He used them for his web site. IIRC Rick made these breech plugs out of a 5/8" grade 8 bolt to allow a little extra meat in the threaded area of the barrel. He supplied two plugs with each of his conversion packages. They are different thread and pitch than the standard Savage plug as well as being about 1/2" shorter OAL. As he mentioned on that page in no way was he implying that the Savage plug is inadequate.
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 18, 2011 15:34:43 GMT -5
Can you tell a difference in accuracy or ignition with RBs vs Savage?
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Post by Chris Champion on Jan 19, 2011 16:40:44 GMT -5
I never used a Savage breech plug in the 45 cal Pacnor so I can't say. The Savage plug will not fit in my barrel as its drilled and tapped for RB's plug. I used the Savage plug in the standard 50 cal but comparing that to the 45 is not a fair comparision for accuracy. Based on the kind of accuracy that others are getting in the 45 cal Pacnor with the factory Savage breech plug I'd say they are similar. The benefit you get with the RB plug is a little more meat in the barrel at the breech plug threads and a shorter flame channel from the primer to your powder since the plug is shorter. One thing I can say comparing the two is that the shorter RB plug does not carbon up near as bad as the Savage plug. I think you'd get the same result by recessing your vent liner as many on this board have done with the Savage plug.
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 20, 2011 1:47:06 GMT -5
Thank you sir
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Post by sf9753 on Jan 30, 2011 8:34:22 GMT -5
It says the late Rick Bibby. I'm new here. If he died, is anyone else making these for sale? I'm interested in buying some, but don't own a lathe. I don't think I'd want to explain the purchase of a lathe right now, and they are hard to hide, but the breech plugs would be a pretty inconspicuous purchase.
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Post by ohiobuckeye on Jan 31, 2011 12:41:58 GMT -5
Does anyone know if Rick's son is doing anything with his stuff, I mean if he had any extra breech plugs made up for sale? if so how can we contact him, Thanks
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 31, 2011 19:04:34 GMT -5
I have wondered the same thing, but, I thought after a little more time they would contact one of the board members who were closest to him. Then we would find out?
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guppy
8 Pointer
hunting buddy
Posts: 191
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Post by guppy on Feb 8, 2011 17:25:22 GMT -5
If someone sends me one I would be happy to make several, if RB's son isn't making these. Even a good print and I could make a run. Thanks, Kevin
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Post by Jon on Feb 8, 2011 19:05:17 GMT -5
Guppy. If you get the info. put me down for 2. On his web sight he gives a pretty good description but probably not enough to build it from. Some of the people on the board that have them may chime in.
Jon
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Post by ohiobuckeye on Feb 8, 2011 19:04:52 GMT -5
Guppy, the breech plug RB worked on for me was a standard Savage plug and all he did was drill it out and install a drill bushing, is this something you could do if I can get a bushing?
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guppy
8 Pointer
hunting buddy
Posts: 191
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Post by guppy on Feb 9, 2011 3:17:51 GMT -5
Ohiobuckeye, yes, I could install a bushing. Jon, no problem making a couple for you. I need the internal dimensions more than anything ..like I said, a plug to measure myself, or a good print and I can start on them.
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Post by edge on Feb 9, 2011 6:49:33 GMT -5
Personally after you check with RB's son I would ask Pacnor for their barrel spec!
There are always manufacturing tolerances and I would verify that my plug would fit all barrels.
IMO, the barrel maker and plug maker MUST have different specs or there will be some plugs that won't mate with some barrels!!
edge.
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Post by Chris Champion on Feb 9, 2011 8:04:10 GMT -5
IIRC, Rick ordered blanks from Pacnor and drilled and tapped his own breech plug threads.
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Post by Jon on Feb 9, 2011 8:39:59 GMT -5
Guppy. As I remember Rick used a 5/8th grade 8 bolt for the blank. I don't know if he used a vent or not. If he did use a vent the interior measurements would be pretty much fixed. If I remember correct he was careful on the primer fit. (Rick you are sorely missed may you rest in peace.)Maybe Chris or SW might chime in with other info they have as far as vent or bushing and internal dimensions.
Jon
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Post by sf9753 on Feb 9, 2011 23:47:13 GMT -5
Guppy, if you get these up and going, I want at least two. Keep us posted.
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Post by pposey on Feb 11, 2011 10:08:11 GMT -5
Now these drill bushings,,, they do away with the need for a vent liner yes? and last a longgggg time?
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Post by Dave W on Feb 11, 2011 15:53:40 GMT -5
Now these drill bushings,,, they do away with the need for a vent liner yes? and last a longgggg time? Does away with the vent but if they are not pinned in the plug or held in place with a worn out vent, there is the risk of them blowing out the barrel!  Some last longer than others. One went for over 400 shots, one less than a 100 shots. Doubt the current bushing makes 200 shots. Carbide bushings will probably be the longest lasting but also expensive. |
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Post by rossman40 on Feb 16, 2011 18:35:49 GMT -5
RB wasn't a dummy, starting out making a breechplug from a grade 8 bolt is pretty smart. Your insured of some pretty strong threads since they are rolled instead of cut plus the heat treating and tempering is already done. The threads would actually be stronger then the ones you cut in the barrel.
As far as the bushing RB got a batch of sub standard/Chinese ones slipped to him by a supplier which didn't last much longer then a factory vent. You can just press fit them but your tolerances have to be right on. A carbide bushing you looking at $35 just for the bushing.
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Post by Chris Champion on Feb 17, 2011 8:32:44 GMT -5
Both of my plugs use vents. One unique thing I noticed right away about RB's plug was that the bottom of the vent liner screw head did not fully seat into the countersink in the plug. When you use a Savage vent in a Savage OEM plug the face of the vent sits flush with the end of the plug. RB cut his countersink in his plug short. I asked RB about this and he said that was his intent. The vent is still fully threaded and fully seated against the countersink, there is just less contact area in the counterseat. His thought was less contact area would provide less opportunity in getting a vent liner seazed up.
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guppy
8 Pointer
hunting buddy
Posts: 191
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Post by guppy on Feb 17, 2011 8:47:18 GMT -5
Rossman40, I would have loved to find carbide bushings for $35 . I sent out quotes to two suppliers and they were in $65-$70 range, unless you ordered a hundred. If anyone has them for that price I would be happy to relieve you of some. Has anyone measured up a plug yet? I'm kinda itching to start working on guns again, especially now the snow is leaving and I can get to my range now. Even if you have an idea and want to see let me know as I have a lot of time to tinker and a lot of resources available to me.
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Post by minst7877 on Feb 27, 2011 22:29:08 GMT -5
I have in my ML II a Savage plug that Rick Biddy put the bushing in. It is recessed from the nose of the plug and pressed in. As all the pressure during firing creates a equal and opposite reaction there is no way the bushing will ever come out the front of the plug. If it ever wears to much it will be a simple matter to push out the existing bushing and buy a replacement.
DC
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 23:07:56 GMT -5
Guys, not trying to discourage anyone but with the bushing i had in one of mine it only lasted about 300 shots and it was done. it started wearing at an odd angle and the accuracy started going south. I got a couple of new savage plugs and had RB recess them for me and with lehigh vents I am a happy camper. the carbide bushings are just too expensive and a pia to install. the savage plugs work very well, Im not sure you will be making a great improvement with the mentioned plug size, afterall this has not been a problem area in the past. if one were to go with a light contour barrel then I could see a change. Just one opinion and it dont count for much....Bill
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Post by cuda on Feb 28, 2011 4:27:39 GMT -5
Hilbill was yours a carbide bushing or what was it made of. Carbide should not burn out that fast it must have been something else. I have a carbide in mine and it is fine no ware at all as far as I can measure.
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