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Post by ozark on Nov 24, 2009 18:40:48 GMT -5
It keeps coming to my mind that I would like to get the basic equipment and do some reloading. I only shoot a few (Maybe 20) rounds per year through my .243. I know that for me it would be a waste of money and certainly not a wise move. Especially so, since my mentor Wilmsmeyer will reload for me charging only for the bullets and powder if I send him the empty brass. Now here is my question. How can I get this foolish notion out of my head? It would be different if I was a younger person but in four months I will be 83. I never had this silly notion until I got that Savage MLII. I think that rifle has a virus that gets the brain cells playing ping pong with each other. Any suggestions short of the old folks home?
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Post by whelenman on Nov 24, 2009 19:48:10 GMT -5
A wise person just a few days ago said "You don't quit playing because you get old, but you get old because you quit playing." Does that sound familiar? Sounds like a good reason to get a reloading setup to me.
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Post by ozark on Nov 24, 2009 20:02:47 GMT -5
Whelenman, Are you insinuating that a person should practice what they preach? That is probably what will happen. I fight temptation a long time and although I am not easy I can be had. I am still trying to resist though.
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Post by mountainam on Nov 24, 2009 22:20:27 GMT -5
Well, you probably got the notion when you got your 10ML because you were challenged to squeeze all the performance you could out of it. After all, it's the cutting edge of muzzle loaders. That got you to thinking,what if I could wring out every bit of performance out of your favorite CF rifle? For me it was the other way around.I've been reloading since I was 14. The Savage was a natural progression for me. The only factory rounds I shoot are the ones people give me when I'm working up a load for their rifle.And that just to show them how poorly the factory ammo shoots compared to the reloads. Go ahead, take the new challenge. You already know what the reward feels like when you get there. I'm sure you mentor will get you going. Good Shooting!
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Post by whyohe on Nov 25, 2009 6:49:55 GMT -5
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Post by craigf on Nov 30, 2009 13:22:32 GMT -5
Ben, I enjoy reloading more than shooting sometimes. I like to "tinker" and I can do it for 20 minutes then go back to work. There are kits that are very inexpensive out there. Here is a Lee for under $95. www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=121744I would not recommend reloading for saving money with that amount you shoot a year, but if you think you would enjoy it I do recommend it. It is very satisfying.
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Post by KerryB on Nov 30, 2009 22:50:20 GMT -5
I agree with Craig. I also sometimes enjoy the reloading more than the actual shooting. It is really satisfying to spend an icy winter day sitting at the reloading bench, knowing that i am saving money while getting more accurate ammo than i can buy. I say go for it! Kerry
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Post by dpoor65 on Dec 9, 2009 17:29:49 GMT -5
ozark, i think we have the same virus....I to have decided to start my own reloading...and I too had someone that did it for me, but times change and I think it's about time. good luck with yours and wish me luck with mine
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Post by ET on Dec 9, 2009 23:08:30 GMT -5
Ozark I'm not going to encourage you or discourage you. Instead I'm going to warn you that the reloading bug is as bad as the Savage bug. Sure the basic tools will put together a load for you but when the itch developes for producing better groups, look out. Next will be a tool for removing the primer hole burr inside the case. This tool will also chamfer the hole inside and also generate consistent hole diameters. Of course another step will be a neck turning tool for even wall thickness around the neck. Next is a hand tool for priming the case that will allow you to seat a primer by feel for best results. And the list can go on even more. Next bullet, primer and powder selection comes into play to find the best load for your rifle. Just wanted to warn you about the nature of the beast you'll face once the bug bites. ;D Now if you get a tack driving load developed for your rifle it is very satisfying. Ed
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Post by whelenman on Dec 10, 2009 8:32:33 GMT -5
Like ET said it's addicting. You can spend a few minutes loading a box of ammo or a few hours. It just depends on how precise you want to be. The search for accuracy never ends until the weakest link is the shooter.
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Post by jims on Dec 10, 2009 13:29:09 GMT -5
elkboy65: It is easy to catch that "virus" and almost impossible to "cure".
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Post by dpoor65 on Dec 10, 2009 19:51:52 GMT -5
no cure ? great thats all i need to hear was it was terminal....well at least there is a great group of guys on here that are always willing to help...
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Post by ozark on Dec 11, 2009 20:48:36 GMT -5
I am still fighting the virus. I keep reading that reloading can save you a lot of money. I wonder where the breakover point is. How many rounds would a shooter have to shoot per year to make it break even in five years? First, you need the press, then the scales, then the crimping tools, then the case cleaners, then comes the primer reamers, neck working tool. Brass, bullets and powders, primers and since I am not a reloader I don't know what else. I am sure it is fun and it is said that reloads are more accurate than over the counter ammo. Today premium ammo is pretty darn accurate for normal hunting purposes. Since it is my nature to start a project and work to make it the top of the line, I think I maybe should just buy a nice pair of binoculars and skip the reloading. My age is a factor too. Now I am told there is no cure and that it is terminal. It is a darn shame we can't pass through this life many times.
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Post by ET on Dec 11, 2009 23:22:13 GMT -5
Ozark
I started reloading about ¼-century ago with the intention of producing ammo better than store bought quality and at roughly a ¼ of the cost. Once I developed a load that shot lights out well there wasn’t much more to do but follow the same loading procedure for a given caliber with same loading components. Also once I found a good load I often would load a 100-rounds plus to have readily on hand.
From my point of view if you can say just write the bought equipment off as an initial expense and start looking at your reloads cost wise then you can immediately look at starting to save money with a quality load. Heck you will have to pay something for doing anything enjoyable and reloading is no different. The question is how much do you want to spend for what you want to achieve?
For my hunting partner who has a triple deuce in a Remington 660 I basically reload 120 rounds whenever he starts to get low. Once about every 4 years and he just covers the cost of loading components. At 100-meters he easily produces 5/16” groups where as store bought ammo barely gives him 1” groups. It shoots so good that he only takes it out hunting for yotes once in a while or just a few shots at the range to check all is well.
As for me I have a .223, .308 and .300WSM that I also reload for. And every one is better than MOA with my reloads. Mind you each rifle has been bedded to also help achieve these groups under MOA.
One saving note: Shiny clean brass does not shoot any better than tarnished brass. But brass needs to be wiped clean before starting any die operation.
Ed
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Post by craigf on Dec 14, 2009 0:46:41 GMT -5
Ozark, for it to be cost effective, including the cost of the equipment, you will need to shoot more than you have said you do now. Lets say that you can buy of box of 20 premium .243 rounds for $40. You could have reloaded reloaded the same rounds for $20, this includes the cost of empty new brass. The next time you reload them and reuse the same brass the cost would be $16 per 20 rounds. This is with a Nosler Partition bullet. There are cheaper bullets out there. You have to look at making them in batches of 100 for cost figuring. The smallest order of primers are 100 count sleeves.
These estimates are a little on the high side to, you would actually be able to do it for about a dollar or two cheaper per 20. If you reload 200 rounds, using 100 pieces of brass and reloading them twice, you would save $220 compared to if you bought 200 premium rounds. $220 would be enough to purchase all of the equipment that you would need and then some. Some spend way more than this on equipment, but I am referring to just the basics.
I hope this helps your decision.
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Post by whelenman on Dec 14, 2009 11:15:19 GMT -5
Ozark, you're looking at this whole venture in the wrong light. Reloading isn't about saving money.......it's about shooting more for the same cost. If we all really looked at it that way we'd just buy rib eyes at the grocery store and have much less invested per pound of meat that what we do hunting. It's not about practicality but enjoyment. We only go around one time and the older I get the less I care about practicality.
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Post by ozark on Dec 14, 2009 21:18:28 GMT -5
Reloading is only one of many virus I have. In fact, I have unlimited interests but limited funds. Plus, who knows what brainstorm I will get tomorrow. Photography is one interest that can get your money if you want to use the best. I am probably the only member here who has to limit my buying to my income minus our necessities. Even so, I have more money than I will ever need if I die tonight. Maybe I had best at least hope to be living tomorrow. Thanks for all the good advice. One of my problems is they frown on me shooting large caliber rifles here in town. I wonder why?
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Post by deadeye on Dec 14, 2009 22:09:49 GMT -5
i'm lost -what defines a large caliber?? ;D ;D. if you get a rockchucker without the kit in which you will probably find the kit is virtually useless anyway,getting started for approx $200 entry level, might interfere in your internet time though! :olol/lol
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Post by willscarlet on Dec 14, 2009 23:13:55 GMT -5
I know where you're coming from ozark, I'll be 65 at the end of this month and my meandering from one intrest to another still has me as enchained now as it did back when I was a teen earning money working odd jobs to fuel my obsessions! Archery,guns,and hunting, and all the myriad things that stem from such, seem to be the most prominent intrests (throw in reading,woodworking,plastic models,wood model sailing ships,collecting [whatever],I could go on and on and on....playing ball (PAST tense) took up a lot of time also. I guess we would ALL have more money than we would need if we were to die tonight! I've also got the 10MLII bug (got the first deer with it last month) and the CZ hm2 fever,what next ?...... well how about reloading for handgun ? Can't find, and or afford, what I want to shoot so handloading seems to be not only an option, but perhaps an only recourse! I haven't done a thorough research, but with a quick sit-down, using mostly LEE products and sticking with just the basics, came up with a little over $200.00 to get started (not counting the components). Like as has been said about the "cost-effectiveness"... won't see any savings untill you've reloaded a few hundred times, but there is a lot to be said for the satisfaction to be derived. And in my case it may be the only alternative. The only FLY-IN-THE-OINTMENT......there's not a primer to be found!!!
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Post by boarhog on Dec 15, 2009 0:59:35 GMT -5
I don't think reloading saves money. It just helps you shoot more. There are other benefits though. An enjoyable and satisfying past time.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Dec 15, 2009 8:24:45 GMT -5
Reloading does save me money. I have all the basics and have never resorted to all the fine tuning instruments that are out there. The .243 and the 22-250 each have been easy to find very good loads for. Just neck size, trim and load.
Where's the crossover point? If I spent $500 dollars (about right) for my set up and dies for 3 guns I would have to save that much to begin reaping the savings.
A box of premium 243 shells can run $20. My reloads cost about $6 a box using the certain bullets I shoot. $500/$14 in savings would mean I would have to shoot 35-40 boxes of shells to cover my cost. I am way over that number since 2001.
In Ozarks gun he shoots the 85 gr Nosler Partition. This variable will change the formula because they are pricey relative to 55 gr ballistic tips bought in bulk.
The .357 mag is even easier to justify reloading for. It used very little powder for mild loads and bullets are CHEAP. What does a 50 round box of economy rounds go for....$15-18?? Not sure it's been so long. I can reload 50 rounds for under $5 in components.
From a cost standpoint, it's no different then anything else. If you want complete adequacy and no-frills....and you shoot often....it's the way to go. The fringe benefits of satisfaction and a hobby to kill time can't be over looked either.
Yes, we can get crazy with our toys. Who said having fun was supposed to be free or cost effective. Have some fun Ozark. And by the way, my reloading stuff is not set up at the new house and I can't see that happening for quite a few months. I have a ton of ammo reloaded, no time to shoot it and no place for my bench yet. Better conserve a box to fend off those bears and cougars down there for the time being....or get set up. LOL
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Post by pposey on Dec 15, 2009 10:58:04 GMT -5
And reloading is just plain fun,,, building loads, you could load up some blue dot reduced loads for plinking tree rats and the such, I have some real fun ones for my 7mm-08,, some ZOOOOMMMMM loads with ballistic tips for yotes, whatever you like.
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Post by pposey on Dec 15, 2009 10:58:36 GMT -5
Oh and I recomend the Lee Classic Cast press, It has alot of good features
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Post by dpoor65 on Dec 15, 2009 20:12:00 GMT -5
well my main reason for reloading is a couple of future purchases that will take place over the next couple of years for which one will be a .308 that I have wanted for a while just always had some other expense come up, well as they say "when one door closes, another opens" ...and after hearing the news about a new, real 500 yrd range that I will have access to... I put together a 2 yr plan....the first part of it was to do my own reloading...goodluck with yours Ozark and I say go for it what have you got to loose other than some patience on occasion and a little cash....
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Post by olsmokey on Dec 16, 2009 12:51:27 GMT -5
Hey Ozark, You might try some local gun shows for some used reloading equip. I see Springfield Mo. has a big one comeing up Jan 23rd and 24th. Was at there last one and had tons of reloading stuff. Even had powder and primers. good luck Dave
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Post by artjr338wm on Jan 31, 2010 22:25:35 GMT -5
Ozark count me among those who feel you should invest in a reloading set up. If for no other reason, I strongly feel past a certain age the busier you are the longer you will likely live. I started out over 20yrs ago reloading purely out of the necessity of cost savings. I was BIG into shooting revolvers and semi-auto hand guns in .45acp, .38spl, .357, and .44spl and .44mag. So to be able to shoot hundreds of rounds per trip to the range I was forced to start reloading. And just like whyohe suggested I started out reloading by buying a second hand used complete reloading kit, and it was dirt cheap. I still use that same exact reloading kit for over 80% of my reloading needs today. I saw a add in the paper for a RCBS reloading kit FS. Went and looked at it. Kit had a RCBS 1010 B/B scale, a RCBS powder dispencer, Rockchucker press, loading blocks, Lyman case trimmer, RCBS hand primer, lube pad, champher debur tool and even came with 1000 ea of 45 and 38/357 FMJ bullets. And a five gallon bucket of mixed brass in 45acp 38/357 calibers as well. I even at one point bought a Lee progressive reloader for all my HG calibers. It worked quite well, but would not be a 1st choice today if I were to by a second progressive press. For that I would buy a Hornady LnL progressive. But I am getting off track here, as you expressed no interest in reloading for HG cals. Wilmsmeyer was also quite correct in saying you need not invest any $$$ beyond what is required for buy just the basic reloading tools. I will give you and example. My rifles all give quite good accuracy at or below MOA. My 338 I often talk about is exceptionally accurate. I started thinking about just how accurate could i get it to shoot. I did not then or now own anything except basic reloading tools, and have no tools for turning necks or measuring run out or any other reloading tools that normally are found in the bench rest community of reloaders. I called up Sinclare and other companies who sell specialized reloading equipment and when I told them the groups I was getting from my 100% factory rifles, their replies to my question about weather or not to invest in more expensive reloading equipment were all basically the same. Did I really think it was worth spending $100s, and passable several $100s of more dollars only to shrink my groups another AT BEST, .375-.5"? After all these were hunting rifles not competition rifles I was reloading for. Most advised I spend my money on other things so you can hunt and shoot more. I had to admit they were wright. So Ozark unless you have some pressing reason why you should not spend the money, I would say go a head and buy a reloading kit. I'm sure Wilmsmeyer will tell you what you need to get started.
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Post by Richard on May 28, 2010 21:34:10 GMT -5
Ozark.............I am going to be the "fly in the ointment" with my reply. Everyone here has offered many good responses but......................................................Here is the thing. I have been reloading for 46 years now and have accumulated a lot of equipment and knowledge. At age 83 and only shooting maybe 20 rounds per year, you would be foolish to begin reloading now UNLESS you plan on doing a LOT more shooting and with various guns. It would also be extremely helpful, if you do take the plunge, to have a mentor........I mean someone who knows what they are doing.........IN PERSON to assist you. It is very easy for a novice, to oversize a case (unknowingly) and wind up with "case head" separation plus a myriad of other gremlins. Take the money you would spend on reloading equipment and enjoy going out to dinner instead. You got Wilm's to load those 20 cases or send them to me if he is busy. I agree with everyone that reloading is very rewarding and a good pass time. But to buy the amount of equipment you need to load 20 rounds is.........................well...............foolish! Richard
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Post by rjhans53 on May 29, 2010 6:08:45 GMT -5
I sort of agree with Richard, for 20 rounds a year I would save my money and buy "premium" ammo and be done with it. Now if it's just looking for something to do, find a good guy local, use his press, yep you can come down and use mine anytime you would like to (be a bit of a hop though), buy the dies, primers, and powder (I'd even give you 20 primers a year, though I might use up your spare powder) let him show you the ropes and end up with a new friend in the process.
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Post by deadon on May 29, 2010 9:48:36 GMT -5
Ozark,HOPEFULLY you already have once fired brass out of your 243. Theres a savings or about 50 cents a shot and loads from brass fired from you own rifle generally shoot tighter groups ;D PS When I was about 30 yrs old I went into Bobs Gunshop and the 80 year old owner was installing an elevator in his 3 story bldg. I said ,tired of climbing stairs huh Mr B. He looked at me kinda funny and said no Rusty, we are going into camping gear and installing an archery range on the third floor. I guess I had a funny look on my face again because he said "if your not growing, your dieing" He grew about 7 or 8 more years. ;D
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Post by DBinNY on May 29, 2010 10:48:23 GMT -5
Ozark, Richard approaches this from a pratical standpoint. A valid stance. There is another side to it. There is a satisfaction to reloading your own ammunition that exceeds the cost outlay for equipment and components and you only buy the equipment once and it doesn't depreciate quickly. I suspect a man of your vast knowledge of firearms and using them would derive a great deal of satisfaction from reloading. You may even find yourself shooting more and that's not a bad thing.
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