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Post by dougedwards on Jan 31, 2009 11:45:30 GMT -5
I thought that headline might get your attention.  I have a question concerning a whitetails discernment of what it smells and how it may react to it. We know that dogs will urinate in areas to mark their particular territory and we also know that whitetail bucks will do the same during the rutting process. We assume that this urination isn't just a signal that a buck was visiting the spot but that a specific and particular animal was marking HIS spot. I have done some research on this subject with mixed responses but do you feel that whitetail deer are able to discern human urination as being particular to humans or do you believe that they are unable to do that? Based on what we already know you would think through a rational process that we would naturally conclude that they are indeed able to determine the source of the scent. What do you think? Doug |
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Post by Dave W on Jan 31, 2009 12:16:51 GMT -5
Same here, mixed responses from what I have read. I try to be as scent free as possible and strive to keep the hunting area as uncontaminated as possible also. Since I'm not certain of the effects on deer, I hold it until I'm out of the woods.
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Post by dougedwards on Jan 31, 2009 15:04:58 GMT -5
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Post by petev on Jan 31, 2009 18:21:51 GMT -5
I dont know if they can tell that your piss-spot is from a human, but I have the impression that their sense of smell is about as good as a dog's. I can't say that professionally speaking, but having layed flat in leaves and still have deer detect me and stomp their feet 60 yards away, it seems like it might be true. I only pee where I dont care if they know that a human was there.
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Post by ET on Jan 31, 2009 20:03:15 GMT -5
Same here, mixed responses from what I have read. I try to be as scent free as possible and strive to keep the hunting area as uncontaminated as possible also. Since I'm not certain of the effects on deer, I hold it until I'm out of the woods. Hey DW How awkward is it to walk out of the woods with one free hand? Sorry DW had to get one in first for a change. ;D ;D I am under the pretense that deer can distinguish different urine traces. One line of thought is bow hunters used to have pads at the bottom of their boots soaked with Fox Urine or Skunk Urine and not humane urine that would overpower any human scent left behind. More often than not these were the most successful hunters. To minimize leaving scent behind from urine my partner and I carry a designated bottle with a cap to carry our urine waste out when the hunt for the day is finished in an area. My hunting partner also threatened me with the application of a hose clamp if he ever caught me contaminating an area. So I use the bottle.  ;D Ed |
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Post by Dave W on Jan 31, 2009 21:43:57 GMT -5
Guess I left the door open for that one didn't I.
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Post by ET on Jan 31, 2009 23:50:49 GMT -5
Guess I left the door open for that one didn't I. DW If you look at my post above yours I quickly modified it when I discovered I didn’t originally specify Urine waste. I know you would have had a field day with that one, as you don’t miss too many openings. Nice to kid with you once and a while and expect a strong comeback down the road. ;D Ed |
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Post by youp50 on Feb 1, 2009 5:07:35 GMT -5
I carry mine out with me in the bottle it came in. I recycle individual milk bottles to carry water for the hunt. I normally carry the urine out in them. Once used as a urine container they are NOT refilled with drinking water.
There is a fellow, Buck, from a camp across the road from mine that told me this story. He was invited to hunt a baited deer stand. Putting food for deer and waiting to shoot one is a legal practice in Michigan. Another fellow offered this place to Buck for the evening's bow hunt. When Gary took 2 or 3 hundred pounds of food and Buck into this place he promptly urinated on the pile. He told Buck he did this all the time. Buck was upset, he thought Gary had set him up for failure. Buck surmised it was too late in the day and too far in the woods to try another spot. I cannot recall how many deer he said he saw that night, but he did take a decent buck.
I have positioned a licking branch and scraped back the leaves and urinated in the dirt. Several days later there will be evidence of deer using this scrape. This particular place has everything to have a scrape there except the licking branch. I have also just put a branch there and next time through have a scrape.
Conventional wisdom still has us carrying our urine out.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 1, 2009 10:26:22 GMT -5
I will admit to having pee'd from my tree while bowhunting on the occation that I couldn't hold it. I have seen a few reactions and quite a few non-reactions. The reactions have usually come from immature deer that will wander into the "spot" and sniff for a long time. No reactions that indicated fear. Have also seen deer all sexes and ages walk right through and by the area with no reaction at all. What does that mean? Not sure. But I think the effects are not as detrimental as "other" human smells. There is lot's of pee out there from predators and other animals.
While I keep from urinating out of a stand to a minimum, I will do it if it means keeping me out there during a day when the rut is hot. A pee bottle can't hurt a thing either!
Wonder what the logic was in peeing on the bait pile?
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Post by jims on Feb 1, 2009 11:19:01 GMT -5
 ;D To youp50: You said something to the effect, " I carry mine out inthe same bottle it came in." If this was deer pee I could understand it but what is the purpose with homo sapiens urine? ;D
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Post by raf on Feb 1, 2009 11:27:01 GMT -5
I don't worry about it. If you gotta to go, you gotta go. I've seen deer come by some sniff, some don't and those that do it didn't affect them. I have an elevated stand for bow hunting and when I have to go, something to do with all the coffee I drink up there, I go over the edge. (I'm 60 so go regularly and often too ) I've had lots of deer walk by with no effect. Now if you did onto a deer as it walked by, well then you'll a reaction |
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Post by billc on Feb 1, 2009 11:36:57 GMT -5
I try to hold it until I'm out of my hunting area, but if the rubber band breaks ;D I'll do what I have to do. A game warden friend has seen deer licking the grass where he pee'd earlier in the morning. I don't know or understand the behavior, but I'll try to leave the least sign of my presence as possible.
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Post by raf on Feb 1, 2009 13:45:41 GMT -5
A game warden friend has seen deer licking the grass where he pee'd earlier in the morning. Probably after the salt |
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Post by dougedwards on Feb 1, 2009 16:32:25 GMT -5
I am trying to determine why I haven't had great success the last couple of years hunting whitetails even though I have hunted very vigorously. This is most unusual. However this drought does coicide with a developed enlarged prostate condition that, thank God isn't malignant, but is quite enlarged and applies pressure to the urinary tube that runs through it. I never know that I have to go until my bladder is completely full and then there is no holding it. I have been peeing out of my treestand maybe three to four times in a four hour period. Pictures below are of a very nice buck that I took the very first day of muzzleloader season in Virginia three seasons ago. This was the first year that me and my brother-in-law leased the land that we currently still hunt. I was sure that this buck was only the first of many very fine bucks that I would take in years to come but no such luck for me even though my brother-in-law continues to see and pass up on many bucks and has taken two as nice as this one since.   I did have an experience this year in which right after I had dropped my rifle sling from my treestand I had an uncontrollable urge to pee and let loose from above. Not long after that a small four point came right up to the base of the tree and snorted but didn't run off. He just made one jump and continued along his way. I have no idea as to whether he was smelling the sling or urine. Whatever it was it didn't spook him very much. I have been hunting long enough to know that successful trophy whitetail hunting boils down the just being in the right place at the right time but now I am beginning to question myself. Of course I could always refrain from drinking coffee in the morning and carry a large bag to pee in but even that is problematic when the urge hits hard. Next option is surgery which will affect my sex life. Killing big bucks sure is nice but I am trying to hold onto some of the normal functions of life as long as I can.  Doug |
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Post by jims on Feb 1, 2009 16:59:20 GMT -5
That is a very nice buck.
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Post by whyohe on Feb 1, 2009 17:19:26 GMT -5
I am like alot of others here, when ya gotta go ya gotta go. i have urinated several times out of my tree stand and have seen few reactions. most just calmly walk by. i had several walk right next to where i urinated.
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Post by ozark on Feb 2, 2009 5:58:01 GMT -5
At our cabin the outhouse is about 30 feet from the deer feeder that we keep stocked when staying there. Deer coming to eat at the feeder normally know we are there because of the vehicle and scent spread about. They are alert and sniff the air and come to the feeder slow and cautious. In a very short time they settle down and eat calmly. I think deer detect human scent but don't spook and run away until they determine that danger is likely. We know they come within a few feet of our cabin at night while we sleep and in this general area deer destroy gardens in spite of intentionally spreading human scent. One man collected the hair from a barber shop in hope of saving his garden but claimed that it had no benefit. I would guess that some deer are very much afraid of humans while others have little fear.
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Post by youp50 on Feb 2, 2009 8:23:56 GMT -5
jims,
I have to go somewhere with it. I carry bottled water in and urine out, same bottle. I have been spending some time in pop up blinds and it just seems rather uncivilized to pee in your own blind.
Mr Ben,
I think that all deer come into a feed place cautiously. I also think that they can be conditioned. Your example of an outhouse is a good one. The outhouse is there and the odors are there always. If you would bucket out and move some of that to a different place on your property, I think you would find the deer really skittish there.
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Post by deadeye on Feb 2, 2009 9:27:54 GMT -5
what a "pissy" thread ;D, i think i keep deer out of my garden releiving myself there everyday,so far it has worked
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Post by tar12 on Feb 2, 2009 19:15:07 GMT -5
I think that human urine by its self has zero effect on deer. I never take any precautions as far as relieving ones self. I have not had any deer spook as a result of coming across fresh urine.I regularly let it fly from deer stands. ;D
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Post by jims on Feb 2, 2009 22:31:12 GMT -5
To tar12: That is because you are shooting those deer 200 plus yards away, if you let them get closer it might be a different story. Actually I agree, I have never noticed that it spooks deer. Maybe there are enough people in the area I hunt that they are pretty much used to human scents, sounds and activitites. Maybe in the northern woods where people are not common it might be another story.
I know when I am operating my tractor they have little concern until I get very close.
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Post by dougedwards on Feb 3, 2009 7:04:08 GMT -5
I know that a whitetails sense of smell is 1000 times more sensitive than a humans. That is alot! I also know that I can pick up a small stick in my back yard and throw it into the pines then bring my german shorthaired pointer to the back yard and instruct her to "fetch" as I point in the diretion of the stick. She will ALWAYS find the stick based soley on her ability to smell the scent of my hand on the small stick. When I consider how powerful a whitetails sense of smell is, it is a wonder that I would ever be able to get close to one.
From what I have read, urine, all urine has a strong base of amonia that lingers after other elements have evaporated into the atmosphere. However, human urine does contain certain proteins that project molecules into the air. When these proteins have an animal origin the deer can recognize that. In other words, deer know what a carnivores breath and urine smell like. But these proteins are quickly dissipated into the air. Again......this is from what I have read.
When whitetails don't behave the same way all the time it throws us off. We all know of examples of where people might be smoking cigarettes and a deer walks right up to them. This incident could lead us to believe that deer aren't really alerted to strange smells in the woods that shouldn't be there.
It is all rather confusing but I think I will attempt to carry a unrine bottle or bag with me next season and see if I recognize any difference.
Doug
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Post by ozark on Feb 3, 2009 9:17:27 GMT -5
Good post Doug. As we all know the odor strength of urine increases with age. Deer may be able to detect how much time has elapsed since the person relieved themselves. You brought up the scent of breath. That hasn't been brought up by information I have read. That may be broadcasting our presence over a wide area and if so we replinish it all the time. I guess I will try to keep breathing even at the expense of alerting nearby deer. After reading your post some may wear a mask to absorb breath odor. Ozark
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Post by raf on Feb 3, 2009 16:32:16 GMT -5
There are plenty of predators out there that leave there scent. IMO if deer panic and run everytime they smell something, well they be running all the time and drop from exhastion. When they smell something it alerts them to be careful and pay attention. Another thought. Almost everyone here uses the wind in their favor when hunting. So if you relieve yourself under your stand the deer would have to be almost under you when it picked up the scent and I'm pretty sure most of you would have shot it before it got that close . |
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Post by whyohe on Feb 3, 2009 17:50:44 GMT -5
Doug and RAF, i agree with you. human urine usually has an Oder depending on what you eat and drink.
IMO human urine doesn't contain hormones or things like that that might really trigger a deer. when deer mark they urinate down their tarsal glands and i think that this is what really triggers a deer(meaning gland secretions in general).
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Post by getonit on Feb 3, 2009 21:21:48 GMT -5
this thread brought back a memory from a few years back- my buddy and I were always diligent about keeping our area 'scent free'- always pee before going in, hold it till you leave... One time we were going in I stopped to pee on a small shrub bush- I decided to put some doe inheat scent on my boot sole at the same time - when we walked back out from hunting I guess a buck got pi**ed off from my pi**ing on the shrub- he tore it to pieces and pawed the ground around it- I dont worry to much about holding it anymore ;D... Rick
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Post by davewilson on Feb 4, 2009 20:05:04 GMT -5
i used to experiment with different odors, mostly commercially available lures. but the second best response i had with "stuff" i put on scrapes( deer and my own) was a mixture of water, amonia and salt. this worked pretty well, only did this in Sept and Oct. as was mentioned and also my thoughts on the matter, was urine breaks down and turns to amonia. but the best results i had of buck activity around scrapes, was just peeing in them. it's 100% natural, only thing i did was avoid eating meat during my serious bow hunting. the adverse reaction deer have is not from the urine, but at other odor coming off the body or footwear. North American Whitetail published an article about this in year 91. can't remember the month, but the article was about "me and my pissin"
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tslc
Forkhorn
Posts: 66
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Post by tslc on Feb 4, 2009 22:38:16 GMT -5
I hunted a buck for 3 years that I never saw but got a lot of trail cam pictures of him all after dark in the fall and thought he was in the 7 to 8 year old range. I thought he was spending some time in the next section so I put up a trail cam in it and made a mock scrape and pee'd in it. He was the first deer that visited it and stayed long enough for 3 pics. That was the first of several bucks that hit that scrape. I've never worried much about urine since. One of his summer pics.  |
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Post by davewilson on Feb 4, 2009 22:46:06 GMT -5
nice buck
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Post by Buckrub on Feb 20, 2009 13:51:06 GMT -5
I have always been led to believe that 20 minutes after hitting the ground, almost all mammal urine smells alike.
I dunno. Beats me.
I do know that I NEVER EVER EVER take a leak out of my deer stand........unless I need to.
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;D
;D To youp50: You said something to the effect, " I carry mine out inthe same bottle it came in." If this was deer pee I could understand it but what is the purpose with homo sapiens urine? 
