Pistols opinions?

[hornet22savage]

Been in the process of getting my permit for a while now and I'm starting to look at guns. I really like the look and feel of the new Ithaca Gun 1911 any body here have first person expirience with them? Kimber is another one I have been looking at in 10 Auto as is a Para Ord again in 10 Auto. Just looking for opinions on the guns themselves, I like the abnormality of the 10 Auto caliber. I know that for home defence or a carry gun that a S&W 40 cal. would do better and is probably easier to find ammunition. The Ithaca is a 45 ACP only which is fine it would go good with my M37 Deerslayer. What is with this 45 Auto +P is it useable in most 45 ACP's since I can not find a gun specifically chambered for it?

[jims]

The pistol guys can chime in but as I understand it the plus p loads just are a higher pressure load internally for more speed and should be used in guns with appropriate steel strength and there is no real external dimension difference. All current late model built guns should work. Aluminum frames guns can take a beating after awhile they say if plus p is shot extensively.
The 10mm is a beast.

[Slufoot]

Hello Hornet,
I bought a Para Elite Long Slide Hunter in 10mm about a month ago. I've only shot maybe 100 rounds through it during an informal fun shoot with one of my friends. I'm going to work up loads using the chronograph and find out what it likes as soon as I get a chance and the weather cooperates. The gun seems to be built well and I really like it.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[rossman40]

Jim is right on concerning the +P ammo.

The 10mm is pretty awesome but a lot of the factory loads are milder then the original loads designed for the big S&Ws (1000 series) and Colt Delta Elites (Colt actually added a extra barrel lug to handle the loads and a double recoil spring). The .45 ACP has a lot more flexibility with off-the-shelf ammo.

I was raised on 1911s but when I go full size .45 nowadays it is with a SIG P220. SIG has a lot of new .45s aimed at the CCW people.

[tbear99]

love the 10mm i have the s&w 1006 and it is fun and big.Personally my main carry gun is commander sized 1911.

Kimber's quality control is hit and miss.I had a custom polymer 45acp with the double stack mag's while my gun shot great i found harder to carry and conceal so the commander gets the nod

your statement (I know that for home defence or a carry gun that a S&W 40 cal. would do better and is probably easier to find ammunition.) I disagree i feel the 45 and 10mm far superior then the .40.The 45acp seems you can always buy ammo for the 10 not so much

[sourdough44]

Just some thoughts, 1st off, most 10mm ballistics are not THAT much more than a hotter 40 s&w load. Just like the Labrador dog, the 40 is common for a reason, nothing wrong with it. With CC, weight, size, round count & trigger system factor in heavily. You really want a easily carried package with a decent round count. Most of the 1911 platforms are on the heavy side with limited rounds.

I just have one standard size 1911, no desire to carry it concealed, just me though. A few of MY favorites are the H&K P2000sk LEM trigger, Glock 26/23, Ruger LCP, Sig P238, S&W 340PD 38spcl +p & others.

I also don't subscribe to the ONE best CC gun, 'H.D.' & range use may be called for. One gun could do most, but there are times when options are called for. Often my CC will morph into 'woods carry'.

[jims]

One would need to get a overall size firearm that one would wear regularly. If it is the wrong size at times they are not worn, it would not do much good if you do not wear it.
Some feel the .380 or 9mm are the minimum size calibers recommended but I have seen some .32 Seecamps that are well liked. Certainly easier to conceal than some of the larger offerings.

[03mossy]

I know guys do it but I personally wouldn't want the weight of a full size 1911 tucked in my waistband all day everyday. I have a Ruger SR 1911 and absolutely love it. But for my everyday carry its a M&P Shield. Can't say enough good things about its size/weight/and shootability. Some guns are on the other end to small to shoot a lot. I had a Ruger lcp for a few years and while great to conceal, was no fun at the range!

[tbear99]

this is another carry gun sorry about bad pic sent from phone.Good conceal gun in 45 but sucks at range.but it was made for self defense

[sourdough44]

So much that may happen in the CC world is at arms length, or not much more. Often that can call for 'bent elbow' shooting, no real us of the sights. Aimed fire at 25 yards is not something I give much thought to, with concealed carry. Throw in some woods carry & things may change a bit.

That said, good situational awareness usually trumps most of the rest.

[pposey]

My Glock 20 in 10mm fells like an extension of my arm,,,,, just ask the yote in the thread below this one. I duty carried a ruger GP100 in 357 and the Glock 20 with 6 inch barrel is easier to carry. In the right holster I can CC it with shirt/jacket over it and I'm not that big of a guy. For the summer I use a LCP CC,,, fits in my shorts pocket really well. I really want a Glock 29 in 10mm,,,

[jims]

The new Glock .380 is out, I think it is the model 42. Single stack and less than an inch wide and under 14 ounces. They may sell a few of those.

[pposey]

Yep I really want to get my hands on one, hope I can replace the LCP with it,,, I already have a Glock 26 "baby Glock 9mm" but it is a little heavy for shorts pockets

[hornet22savage]

Lots of good information here thanks for all of the opinions and options.

[Deleted]

I rotate cc between my SW .40 Shield and my SW 60 .357.... like them equally well... It depends on my mood that day... I also own a couple 1911's one GI and another commander. They're great guns to shoot but a little little large for cc in my opinion.... I like my handguns all eight of them.
Zen

[petev]

For carry, I like the Sig .380 It is incredibly accurate.

[wilmsmeyer]

I've mentioned some of this in other threads recently.....but I have fallen in love with the Ruger SR9 over the past 2 years and carry it everywhere I go except in the office at work. (gun free zone! ) It is small enough to carry concealed in all seasons and large enough to feel like you have a "real" gun in your hands when you shoot it. I carry in inside the belt with pants that need a belt to stay up. Not baggy at all, just about an inch too big. I think that's key to comfort. Nothing more uncomfortable that trying to squeeze a carry gun in pants that are already a little snug.

Up until 2 years ago, and never owning a 9mm, I was never a big fan. I felt that it was a marginal round at best. However, looking at the ballistics of some of the newer rounds out there, it is hard to consider the round marginal. If you ever go on youtube, there a great guy called "TNOUTDOORS9" that does ammo testing using sim test media and layers of blue jean material. He velocity tests along the way. All his videos are consistent and unbiased. He measures the "stretch cavity", penetration depth and expantion/weight retention of the ammo he tests. He has tests of just about every piston caliber out there along with rifle and shotgun ammo tests. GREAT videos.

Here's one, a very general one. Most videos focus on one round the whole time. Take a look


There are several 115gr JHP rounds out there in the 1,300 fps range (actual not advertised). This is not small potatoes. And, it's extremely controllable to shoot accurately and fire follow up shots quickly for someone that is new to shooting or doesn't shoot alot.

Practise ammo is cheap...almost so cheap that it's hard to save money reloading although you can save some.

In any event, I feel just fine carrying this and the 115 gr CorBons advertised at 1,350 fps.

For the .45 ACP lovers (and I want to also join that crowd soon) The SR45 is basically the exact same gun as the SR9 but with a bigger hole in the barrel. Might be a few ounces heavier when loaded due to heavier rounds.

[wilmsmeyer]

Here's a more detailed video review of some 9mm ammo from TNOUTDOORS9. You should check out his home page and I am sure you will find something you like.

[7mmfreak]

I have sort of come full swing over the years. I started on a Browning Buckmark .22LR and a Glock 17 9x19mm. Then for a number of years I shot Kimber 1911 Government and Commander length in .45 ACP. At that time I also had a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt for +P loads to use as a "woods gun". These days I am back to shooting a .22LR, a S&W M&P Pro9L in 9x19mm and Shield in 9x19mm. I still have a Kimber Pro Tactical in .45 ACP that sees the occasional range session and tactical match but usually only when panic hoarders have bought all the 9x19mm ammo available. My recommendation is, that unless you are a proficient pistolero, start on a striker-fire 9x19mm and someday if you want one buy a 1911 and become proficient with the controls and managing the recoil. The 1911 was the best choice in auto-loaders in 1911 but this is 2015 and there are better options for most applications.

I think the 9x19mm is absolutely the most shootable self-loading pistol around regardless of model. The .380 ACP subs are generally too small to really shoot well. The .45 ACP is generally too much gun for most guys to be proficient with because most guys just do not shoot enough. I never understood the .40S&W because it is like an El Camino. I don't believe in +P loads because there is no reason to stress your equipment for the marginal gain with one exception (a purpose built hunting revolver). If a 9x19mm isn't getting the job done a faster 9mm is not the answer; apply same logic to almost any other +P load.

There is no one best pistol though. The .22LR is the best trainer for learning and fixing fundamentals. The 9x19mm is the best for all recreation, competition, and defense. It recoils less, offers faster recover, is cheap to shoot, and offers you more ammo than larger chamberings. If it doesn't get the desired effect with the first round, keep shooting. The woods require a different choice all together if you are after a dedicated hunting recolver and are the only place for a +P since they are the only conditions which will likely dictate a need for increased range, energy, and momentum through heavy, hard-cast bullets. But if it isn't a "hunting" pistol or defense for bears (and then prevention is better medicine), then your normal carry gun or .22LR will do just fine.

Decisions outside of these parameters are based on something you want rather than something you need.

[tcmech]

The best handgun to start with will be whatever you feel the most comfortable with. I believe that every handgun is a tradeoff of some kind. You will just need to figure out which features you are most interested in. I don't see the need to have 50+ rounds of ammo on me. I do carry a spare mag, but even so I usually have less ammo on me than what most full size 9mm or 40s&w mags will hold. For me the factors I want are light, compact, reasonable caliber, and most importantly, reliability. The handgun I usually carry is a glock 36.

[10ga]

Jan 18, 2015 10:04:31 GMT -5 tcmech said:

The best handgun to start with will be whatever you feel the most comfortable with.


For me the factors I want are light, compact, reasonable caliber, and most importantly, reliability. The handgun I usually carry is a glock 36.

The whole thing on CC is what you think is best for you. FBI figures show most gunfights take place at 20' or less. There is a big difference in home defense and CC. And something for field carry is another animal altogether. For CC I have 3 guns depending on my dress and where I'm going and what I'm doing. Old gi "singer" 45acp, police surplus S&W 38 M&P modified, and a 25acp Raven. I have had them all for a long time and have shot the 45 and 38 a lot. the 25 not so much but it is small and OK at arms length. Whatever you get, use it, and practice enough so you can hit torso silouettes in the dark/blindfolded at 15'. Practice, practice, practice will tell you if you like it or not. If not satisfied and absolutely dependable try something else. For power I like the 45 but for dependability I like the wheel gun. JMHO. 10

Ammo: for the 45 it's hardball all the time. for the 38 it's 158 gr SWC.

Oh yeah, If you really want to know a little of what the shock of a gunfight is like go in a shoot house, better in a car or truck cab, and do a round without eye or ear protection, it's not good.

10 years as a LEO (left the streets 23 years ago) and sessions at Quantico teach you a lot.

10

[7mmfreak]

Jan 18, 2015 19:25:11 GMT -5 10ga said:

Oh yeah, If you really want to know a little of what the shock of a gunfight is like go in a shoot house, better in a car or truck cab, and do a round without eye or ear protection, it's not good.

You forgot machine guns and bombs. A short barreled SAW in a shoot house is LOUD. Honestly, any rifle is loud in a house. And I don't definitely don't recommend doing a round without ear-pro. It wouldn't take many rounds of that to render your guns "hearing safe" for life.

I don't think there is a lot of "shock" value to a live fire until it becomes force on force with Simunition. The house is full of static targets and you have probably already done a dry and blank run. Force on force is dynamic and can pit you against a target that is smarter and more proficient than you are. That is when you see people actually hustle and use cover/concealment because Sim-rounds hurt. I saw one embed in the lobe of a guy's ear that was on my team. I saw another go through a neck gaiter and stick in a guys skin on his neck like a dermal anchor. Both of those were 5.56mm rounds. I have never seen the 9mm rounds do more than leave a good welt and bruise.

[hornet22savage]

10ga. When you say hardball I assume you mean FMJ? You wouldn't reccomend the barnes Tac-XP? What weight I again assume 230 gr. i have been looking hard at the ruger SR1911 for in the house and then I'm still at odds for a carry gun.

[7mmfreak]

Yes, ball ammo is FMJ.

[gettit]

over the past 4 decades, I have shot a LOT of critters, 100's of them, with CCW pistols and loads. Believe me, the various versions of jello don't replicate chest organs much, at all. The lungs are nothing but air sacks and jhp's have to be really MOVING to expand  (reliably) in the chest. over 1000 fps in .45, and over 1200 fps in 9mm/38. Most factory loads, the bullet is much too heavy for the caliber and moving  much too slowly. i recomend the CorBon PowRBall ammo in .45 or 9mm. Never owned a .40, never would.

[encore50a]

Although I have 4 handguns, I'm far from an expert, but here's my take.

I went from a Colt Bankers Special, to carrying a M&P Shield in .40. Now I like the Shield, however ...... I ..... can't hit crap with it for some reason. It has always shot low and was sent back to S&W, who installed a lower front sight. At 20' I'm still shooting it low.  My local dealer shot it the other day and was shooting a dandy 3" group at 20'.  His comment to me was, "Ain't nothing wrong with the pistol." 

My take is, if I can't feel confident with ANY firearm, its got to go. My Shield and 7 boxes of ammunition, is now listed for sale on other sites. I'm replacing the Shield with a Walther PPS 9mm, which was ordered yesterday by a local dealer.

I have a friend who is a huge 1911 fan.  HUGE.  His latest toy is a Les Baer Custom.  He's more of a target shooter holding records at Camp Perry, but does carry and when he does, he carries a Colt Defender.  During our conversation about pistols, although he dearly loves his 1911's, he told me trying to conceal one in the summer, is "like trying to hide an erection in a speedo."  Needless to say, after I quit laughing I'd ruled a 1911 out for CC.

Buddy told me that when shooting a pistol, you could take 5 different guys who shoot pistols and hand them the same pistol and ammunition.  Two of those guys may shoot the pistol perfect, where the other 3 may struggle.  So my conclusion is, there is no perfect pistol.  Only the pistol that fits YOU and YOU shoot well and have confidence with.