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Post by abentley on Sept 28, 2012 0:10:08 GMT -5
Well this is my first post but after lurking around on here for the last few weeks it won't be my last. I live in Ohio and am an avid small caliber shooter (20cal and smaller/ saubier.com) although I shoot 30cals a good bit. I have one week left in the Navy.
Getting parts assembled to build myself a SML in gunsmith school (Penn State) next year and a question I haven't seen answered yet came to mind. What is the lightest contour you can safely use on a 45 bore SML? I was thinking a #4 @ 24". I want a lightweight SML, somewhere in the 7lb range. Please let me know what your experiences and opinions are.
Adam Bentley
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Post by fishhawk on Sept 28, 2012 5:43:58 GMT -5
Welcome Adam and thanks for your service to our country! Any typical contour for a .45 bore is safe with what we consider normal loads. The problem that can and often does arise is what is safe/safer in the event of a loading mistake. Many have either accidentally double loaded in one form or another or possible left the ramrod in the barrel. As I'm sure you realize this raises the pressure beyond dangerous levels. Many think that they would never let this happen until the day it does. It is so easy to get distracted at a range or at deer camp. The lightest barrel I would ever consider using is a Sendero which give you quite a bit more meat in the first few inches in front of the recoil lug. Most use from the Sendero all the way up to a #7 hoping this is enough to protect them.
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 28, 2012 6:42:32 GMT -5
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 28, 2012 11:21:29 GMT -5
The thing to look at is the overall package. You can build a light rifle and then mount 4lbs+ of scope, mounts and rings. While the barrel is a major point of weight savings you have to look at everything else you use on the rifle. The stock is the second, a 24oz (or less) featherweight stock compared to a 48oz (or more) model. Then there is weight savings by using aluminum parts like trigger guard, bolt shroud, scope mounts and rings. Do you go with a .250" thick recoil lug or a .187". Look at scope weights, do you go with a light 2-7X32 or a scope like a big IOR Valdala or worse one of those big objective ATN clunkers. Even your choice of recoil pad, sling swivels and sling . A step farther would be to skelatonize the bolt handle and maybe scallop the action or even turn it down .050".
Then what is the weight worth to you? You can make the action out of titanium and go with a carbon fiber barrel and save 2, maybe 3 lbs, for a cost of about $3k.
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Post by edwardamason on Sept 28, 2012 12:26:31 GMT -5
The Base weight of a stock Rem700 and a Savage MLII are both at 7.5 LBS. SS models are tad bit more. If I could get into a Custom ML at 1lb less (6.5 lbs.) I would be all for it. Ive held off ordering a NULA because what I really wanted was a lightweight Rem 700 ML. I am fine with a 21 inch barrel as hard woods hunting is about all I do now days. Ive got several 700ml actions I could skelonize for the project.
Rossman I fully understand and respect what you are saying about the add ons. Ive thought about that as well. Probably going to go with the Tally lightweight rings and bases and go with a extreamly low power aluminum 2x7x32 or possibly a fixed 4 x. Finished off with TI STock and probably just a very lightweight carry strap instead of a shooting sling.
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Post by abentley on Sept 28, 2012 12:46:21 GMT -5
Here is the shopping list I have right now:
Remington 722 Action (bolt will be skeletonized)
Bansner High Tech Stock ADL (with slot cut for Ramrod)
Remington Alum Trigger guard (with cut down the center)
.5" Pachmyer Pad
Weaver 4x fixed scope
Talley rings/ Bases (that will have the centers drilled out for weight reduction)
I am going with a McGowan or Shilen barrel, but 23/ 22" wouldn't be the end of the world.
If everything goes together well it should be a neat lightweight package.
Also remember I'll be building this rilfe, I know time is money, but I'll only have parts invested.
Adam
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 28, 2012 14:44:00 GMT -5
A 700ML action might weigh a tad more then a 722 or 700 action due to the mag well cut and bolt raceways in the CF actions. But would be 10 times stiffer and a whole lot less headache during the build.
If you still want a challange a 40X rimfire action would be another one to look at. You would have to make a bolt nose. Melvin at NULA uses the 40X rimfire action for the MLs. There was some dirt cheap bare actions available thru the CMP.
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Post by abentley on Sept 28, 2012 16:21:26 GMT -5
I really wanted a XP/ XR action but no dice. I am going to make a specific feed tray that is going to get welded essentially making this a 40XB type action. www.kampfeldcustom.com/index_030.htmThe whole idea isn't to make it the cheapest just the best. I figure the #5 is what I am going to go with for a barrel. I will keep updates as I begin this journey. Adam |
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Post by AJ on Sept 28, 2012 17:02:13 GMT -5
Adam,
Unless you are doing the work yourself, you will be farther ahead buying a custom single shot action. Between the welding, machining, trueing, and finishing, you are equal or more than a Stiller and it won't be worth as much. Not really telling you what to do, just offering suggestions. After all, it's your money.
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 28, 2012 18:07:04 GMT -5
The XR is what Rodger Joyce uses for the top of the line Bad Bull ML. Where he is finding them I have no idea. Every one I have seen the person will not sell it or if he will wants a arm and a leg plus your first born... XPs still are not cheap.
I would have to agree with AJ. By the time the plug was fitted and it was welded and machined, then re-harden and stress relieve the action, and then trueing and finally finishing. That's a whole lot of work, I've done similar.
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Post by abentley on Sept 28, 2012 18:29:42 GMT -5
Adam, Unless you are doing the work yourself, you will be farther ahead buying a custom single shot action. Between the welding, machining, trueing, and finishing, you are equal or more than a Stiller and it won't be worth as much. Not really telling you what to do, just offering suggestions. After all, it's your money. I'm building this during Gunsmith school. Adam |
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Post by abentley on Sept 28, 2012 18:32:59 GMT -5
By the time the plug was fitted and it was welded and machined, then re-harden and stress relieve the action, and then trueing and finally finishing. That's a whole lot of work, I've done similar. No need to reharden. The action doesn't get hot enough to warp or anneal. Stress isn't an issues either, although I'll probably freeze it so when I cut the sidewall out it'll be easier to machine. Adam |
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Post by 500cadillac on Sept 29, 2012 17:10:59 GMT -5
Rem 600 action?
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 1, 2012 21:56:32 GMT -5
You will have to watch the thin right side during welding. You would want to "stitch" it, if you would try a continuous bead it will warp
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Post by 10ga on Oct 7, 2012 20:06:08 GMT -5
Thanks for your service in USN. My dad and uncle were USN vets, both WWII, uncle was Annapolis. For light weight and a really top notch SML rifle why not go with a "single shot" type configueration. Like something on a Ruger #1 type action. My Encore conversion is light but you probably want something a bit more instructive for the schooling stuff. Seems that with the "bolt" type configueration you are getting weight and length that isn't really necessary for SML. I'm certainly not a smith but just my $.02. And keep us updated with the progress in school and with the build. Again thanks, 10 ga
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 8, 2012 7:52:45 GMT -5
That would be a interesting project with say a 1885 Hi-wall. A friend of mine built one from scratch, even down to the springs. Still hasn't had the time to finish it but he perfected his technique on case hardening with it. He did his frame on a CNC but there was a guy offering high quality raw forgings of 1885 frames. Then all the Italian repros came out and then Browning brought it back so I do not know if he still offers them.
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Post by pposey on Oct 10, 2012 9:37:52 GMT -5
Thanks for your service in USN. My dad and uncle were USN vets, both WWII, uncle was Annapolis. For light weight and a really top notch SML rifle why not go with a "single shot" type configueration. Like something on a Ruger #1 type action. My Encore conversion is light but you probably want something a bit more instructive for the schooling stuff. Seems that with the "bolt" type configueration you are getting weight and length that isn't really necessary for SML. I'm certainly not a smith but just my $.02. And keep us updated with the progress in school and with the build. Again thanks, 10 ga for sure, you loose un-needed lenght and weight with a single action, a really nice single shot would be awsome, high wall or #1 could be a sweet project |
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