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Post by dougedwards on Jul 10, 2011 10:32:00 GMT -5
  If you were to visit your local archery shop and ask to look at the various compound bows to possibly purchase one for yourself, you might discover that all of the bows have a very similar appearance (like the bow on the left side). Not exactly of course, but in general the bows of today all have a longer riser and shorter more parallel limbs than those of just a decade ago. The reason for this is because of the recent parallel limb craze which was introduced to reduce felt recoil at release. When any bow is drawn the limbs are then stressed and consequently jump back into their original shape and position when released. In the old style of non-parallel bow design this jumping back into the original position caused the bow to jump away from the shooter's hand (recoil). In an attempt to counter this condition the compound bow manufacturers designed a bow with limbs that were more parallel to the ground and also to each other. At release the top limb of this design would spring upward toward it's at rest position while the bottom limb countered with a downward push thus less recoil is felt by the shooters bow holding hand as these two forces negated each other. Sooooo.......now just about all of the compound bows being produced today display this parallel limb technology but is it really better? If it is then why do ALL of the international target shooters choose the older style non parallel limb design for their target bows? Is this newer design less accurate? We do know that the parallel limb design employs a longer riser and much shorter limbs which adds on average about 1/2 lb of weight to the bow. Is this better? It is probably an unwritten fact that most of the compound bows that are offered today are much more capable of shooting accurately than the average shooter is capable. However it is no secret that a longer bow is much more stable in the hand thus capable of a higher degree of accuracy than a shorter bow which is one of the primary reasons that target archers choose a very long axle to axle bow. Also, adding a little mass to the bow doesn't hurt the bow's inherent ability to hold steady either. But today there really isn't much of a choice as far as hunting bows are concerned. You pick your style of parallel limb bows from which to choose. I happen to appreciate the shorter bows for hunting purposes. They are easier to maneuver and less prone to bumping on the tree stand or limbs of a tree. I do know that I shoot much more accurately with my 37.5" ATA New Breed Cyborg than I do with my 33.5" Genetix or 30.5" Nemesis especially at the longer ranges but at distances of 25 yards or less, the difference as far as hunting accuracy is concerned, is negligible. As far as the little additional weight inherent in the parallel limb design is concerned, I can live with that as the riser materials are getting stronger and lighter with cut outs being the trend to lighten the weight of the bow. What I do see is a marketing tool being used by the sellers of compound bows which birth the "new and improved" .... "ground breaking technology" sales tactics that tout a "dead in the hand" bow and the consumer seems to be biting at this idea. This successful advertising campaign makes it possible to demand what would be considered outrageous prices just 5-8 years ago. Most of your new higher end compound bows of today have a MAP price tag of $800-$1600 and they are selling even in these economic recessionary times. I post this here on Doug's Message Board because we do see this quest for a faster, more accurate muzzleloading rifle and it gets rather expensive. But $1600 for a compound bow?  Then you have to always purchase the accessories for it! The other problem is that rifles usually hold their value to some degree while the "newest technology" compound usually loses around 30-45% of it's original selling value in the first year!! Not really making a statement here as much as asking a question as I do feel that the advent of the parallel limb design has improved the hunting bow significantly. But the question is "Is this design which reduces felt recoil to my hand worth the extra $300-$500 it took to design, manufacture and promote?' Especially when I can say that I can never remember feeling anything after taking one shot at an animal. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this subject as we wait for more exciting subjects to write about as soon as the hunting seasons get a little closer. Doug |
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Post by littlejoe on Jul 10, 2011 11:06:18 GMT -5
Hey Doug, I know what you mean about bow prices. I have about $1600 tied up in my destroyer counting accessories I bought before last season. Now you would think it is behind the times. Oh yeah, parallel limbs is old news, now its "beyond parallel limbs" like the new PSE xforce and the new bear etc. I can tell you this , it will be a long time before I buy another bow. except maybe a bowfishing rig. Joe
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Post by Dave W on Jul 10, 2011 12:00:23 GMT -5
At KNOWN long distances, I shot my wheeled, long axled bows better than my hunting and 3-D bows which had the cams and were built for speed to minimize yardage miscalculations. For 3-D, my scores were better with the speed bows. I do feel the short axled parallel limb bows are easier to shoot than the short axled bows of years past and I like a short bow for the maneuverability aspect when hunting.
Are they worth what they cost-IMO no. If you switch bows often, trying to keep up with the latest fads and small speed gains, you will loose a considerable amount of money over time. I used to buy a new bow every year or every other year, I couldn't support that "habit" now with todays prices. For what bows cost, resale value is a joke, always has been. No one to blame but myself for buying into the hype.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 19:05:24 GMT -5
I bought a Mathews switchback xt around 5 years ago or more,
It has everything that I need in a hunting bow,parallel limbs,smooth draw, shoots a hunting arrow around 289ft/sec. which is fast to me.
Mathews has come up with more models since then, but I just don't see the NEED to spend another grand or more on something that is not much more of an upgrade. Also, my XT is not selling for much more than 400.00 on ebay. People that want to get the most bang for the buck don't be scared of used GOOD bows the people selling them are just chasing the dream that this thread is all about.
I'm satisfied for NOW bow wise,
don't ask me about my smokeless builds though thats another story, I'm sick,lol.
Greenhorn
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Post by sw on Jul 14, 2011 19:20:46 GMT -5
I agree with greenhorn. A good relationship with a good bow dealer can be benefiical for getting a1-2 year old, top line bow for about 1/2 the new price. Unfortunately, for me, is that I shoot 60# and most bows seem to be at least 70#. I like to shoot my compound at nearly full poundage. I have many reasons for preferring a lighter poundage bow. One of the main ones is not damaging my body. After 54 years of bow hunting, I can still easily shoot my recurve. 70-80 lb bows are rather hard on shoulders, ligaments, etc. The crossbow has been easy on my shoulders  . |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 15, 2011 5:16:54 GMT -5
I prefer simplicity and a long term relationship with my bows. Have never got the speed bug. In 1994 I bought a Hoyt Superslam from my friend and used it for 9 years. After that I bought a brand new Cybertec in 2003 which is what I still have.
What appeals to me is no-nonsense bows that are capable of adequate speed and accuracy. Every late summer, when I usually start practicing, I am always surprised to see that my first day shooting is right where I left off the year before. Granted, before that first day, everything gets a check up....cables, string timing etc.
My good hunting friend upgrades at least every 2 years and shoots all year. People are different about bows just like Doug Edwards said about the guys (like me) who at one time in their evolution in ML'ing tried everything possible to push, push the limits for speed. It's expensive to chase the fps and technology and unlike gun hunting, I get the ultimate buzz by being inside 30 yds of a warry buck....finding my opportunity to draw undetected....wait for just the right shot....and watch the arrow go in at the right spot. That's what appeals to me more then the equipment.
Good topic
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 15, 2011 8:57:05 GMT -5
I agree with greenhorn. A good relationship with a good bow dealer can be benefiical for getting a1-2 year old, top line bow for about 1/2 the new price. Unfortunately, for me, is that I shoot 60# and most bows seem to be at least 70#. I like to shoot my compound at nearly full poundage. I have many reasons for preferring a lighter poundage bow. One of the main ones is not damaging my body. After 54 years of bow hunting, I can still easily shoot my recurve. 70-80 lb bows are rather hard on shoulders, ligaments, etc. The crossbow has been easy on my shoulders . Steve, after neck surgery to repair my C-7 vertebrae which was bearing on a nerve to my left arm, I thought that drawing a bow would be impossible for me because of my tremendous loss of strength to my left tricep muscle. I subsequently purchased a crossbow but never felt the satisfaction of hunting with a crossbow comparable to the thrill of slowly drawing while maintaining perfect form and release on a sensitive animal. That is until my brother-in-law introduced me to the Mathews Switchback which was set at 58 lbs. It was surprisingly easy to draw and hold. I was accustomed to my old Pearson Flame from the 80's (set at 67 lbs), and just a bear to smoothly draw, as I am someone who usually doesn't make changes to something that is working. So I had no idea that it would be easily possible for me to hunt with a compound bow again. Because the newer style compound bows are capable of much faster speeds than those of the past, a bow that is set at 60 lbs is a very easy draw and also capable of shooting 400 grain arrows to 300 fps. My hunting arrow is 380 grains and shoots 295 fps in hunting set-up. Because of this condition of the newer bows the 50-60 lb bows have become very popular and thus very available. Also, compound bows today shoot just as efficiently cranked back from maximum poundage unlike those manufactured in years past. In fact, 40-50 lb bows are extremely popular in the target shooting world and are also capable of shooting fast enough for hunting whitetails which are comparably fragile large game animals. Doug |
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Post by Rifleman on Jul 15, 2011 15:09:04 GMT -5
I got into bows for awhile before I had my neck surgery. Had a beautiful Mathews Switchback loaded with all the bells and whistles. I ended up selling it as it just hurt my back to much to practice. But that all being said, I was in a pawn shop the other day and they had oodles of bows for cheap. I saw some junkers but there were some really nice good quality bows in their for sale just waiting to be bought at bargain basement prices.
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Post by sw on Jul 18, 2011 21:50:21 GMT -5
Though I primarily shoot my recurve, and my son has taken over my Hoyt Razortec, I do really like the parallel limb bows. Haven't shot the beyond PL. They seem quieter and have less hand shock. After hunting virtually exclusively with bows for 42 years, I don't mind using my x-bow now, or the 40 cal MLer, or a BAR if legal. Here there is no CF and very limited ML. I'll admit I have always hunted a little longer ranges than commonly accepted for compound and x-bow but practice for such in mind. Have never lost a deer with a longish range shot but have lost 5 deer in 130+ deer and 54 years of hunting(3 scapula hits). Incidentally, Strykeforce x-bow, Red Hot arrow, 125g Thunderhead, smallish doe 20-35 yds(I've forgotten), intentional scapula shot. Surely enough energy to go sailing thru!! Wrong! Lost that deer.  It takes unbelievable energy to go thru a scapula with an arrow. 20ish years ago I shot a nice 12 pt at appx 25 yards with my Pearson Flame set on 82#(a couple of years I lost my mind) with a full length 2219 with a 145# Super Razorhead. Scapula - lost that deer, tracked it for 3 miles, measured on the county map. 12 hrs. I don't like scapulas. Yes, I'd pay a lot for a bow since I almost always kept my bows 7-8 years as primary and then as my back-up bow. I broke that rule with the SZ x-bow but am giving my SF to a very close friend. If the SZ didn't wear servings quite so bad, he'd get the SZ. The SF is maintenance free, virtually. Strykezone 380- 5 arrows, quiver, sling, scope(very nice one IMO), cock rope - $749. Shoots 397g arrow 379 and 433g at 362. Other x-bow companies need to be concerned. |
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Post by pposey on Jul 18, 2011 23:01:44 GMT -5
"What appeals to you"
When bowhunting,,, a really stupid deer at 15 yards and my 12 year old Martin Bobcat,,,, it still stacks them in there at 40 yards and is plenty fast for deer and I.
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 20, 2011 18:09:47 GMT -5
Back when I was in my 20's (no not the roaring twenties) I was hunting with my first compound bow. An old Jennings that was louder than most crossbows and slow as molasses shooting those big heavy aluminum arrows with Thunderheads. I had to scout hard and shoot close. I remember watching a nice buck chasing a doe around but they never got any closer than 35 yards and my effective range was about 20. Also there was a glorious day when I killed a decent buck in the morning then traveled some distance to a back woods cabin where two buddies were hunting. I met them at the cabin and then we decided to hunt the evening. I was in my stand for no more than 5 minutes when a little spike came walking by my stand and I put him down too. However I hit both deer in the spine and I was aiming at the heart.....LOL
Great memories hunting with what is considered today to be an archaic weapon. Sometimes I get confused about the true definition of progress. I was a happy hunter that day with two bucks in the back of my pickup. It was a magical moment and you couldn't have convinced me that there was anything wrong with my equipment on that day. It was a good day to be alive!
Doug
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Post by toosensitive on Jul 21, 2011 9:35:01 GMT -5
Shot recurves in the early seventies. Bought a Jennings Unistar over 20 years ago...whole outfit cost me $300. Plenty of deer went down with this bow but it was heavy, noisy, and the limbs would twist at full draw. Didn't help dropping it out of the tree stand either.
Son bugged me to death to upgrade, so about 4 years ago went to a Matthews Switchback XT...I cannot blame the bow for missed/screwed up shots anymore. It will be the last bow I own...unless I migrate to a crossbow in a few years.
Sort of a catch 22 on the marketing aspects of bows. On one hand it has driven equipment innovations resulting in improved accuracy but on the other hand gimmicks that don't work and ultimately high prices.
Look at the TV hunting shows with their glitz and glamor, rock music, and hyper active hosts. Makes my butt sore watching some of these "adventures". Money is their main objective.
What appeals to me? Having confidence with whatever bow I choose....and dumb deer.
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Post by sagittarius on Jul 29, 2011 23:30:49 GMT -5
Doug, Aside from my current OK and Bowman bows, the Hoyt Carbon Matrix Plus appeals to me quite a bit. Like its light weight, construction, and looks.  |
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Post by dougedwards on Jul 30, 2011 14:45:29 GMT -5
Doug, Aside from my current OK and Bowman bows, the Hoyt Carbon Matrix Plus appeals to me quite a bit. Like its light weight, construction, and looks. I am going to have to agree with you on that one. They are very light in weight and have commercials of trucks running over them with no adverse affect to the riser. But get your wallet out as these bows retail for $1600!!! Here are some cool pictures of custom Hoyt Carbon Element.    |
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Post by littlejoe on Aug 1, 2011 20:29:25 GMT -5
Maybe when next years model comes out this one will be $800 used.LOL
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Post by sagittarius on Aug 2, 2011 16:37:02 GMT -5
Doug,
The Element goes for $999.00 and the Matrix Plus goes for $1,199.00 at my local shop.
Heard some shops are around $100.00 lower than that.
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Post by dougedwards on Aug 3, 2011 7:22:43 GMT -5
Doug, The Element goes for $999.00 and the Matrix Plus goes for $1,199.00 at my local shop. Heard some shops are around $100.00 lower than that. Yeah I have seen some used Matrix bows going for much less although the Hoyt values hold up better than most. They are top of the line compound bows for sure and I would be proud to own one. The 2010 Hoyt Matrix retailed for $1600 and caused quite a stir in the industry not only because of the price, but also because the carbon tubing used for the risers are very light in weight and super strong. Yes, there are advancements being made to the contemporary compound bows but I just don't know where the accelerated pricing is going to end. My opinion is that since the advent of the Mathews Switchback and the Bowtech Tribute, Guardian etc line of bows in 2006 there has been minimal practical advances to the compound bow for us bow hunters. Advances?.......Yes. $500 per bow worth of advances......I think not. But again, this is one man's opinion but it is all I got......LOL Doug |
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Then you have to always purchase the accessories for it! The other problem is that rifles usually hold their value to some degree while the "newest technology" compound usually loses around 30-45% of it's original selling value in the first year!!
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It takes unbelievable energy to go thru a scapula with an arrow.
