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Post by rossman40 on Jul 4, 2011 15:24:37 GMT -5
When down at the cabin I heard them boys down there have a new method of coyote eradication. The use these huge treble hooks (they called them snagging hooks) and attach them to a chain. then the hang the hook from a stout tree limb with the hook about 5' off the ground then load the hook up with some deer meat. The coyote has to ether stand on its back legs or jump to get the meat and ends up getting hooked in the mouth. They come out the next day and find them hanging from the hook still alive and just shoot them. Supposedly they got 7 one night and 8 the next off their 250 acres. I asked about if they caught anybody's dog. They said they didn't last weekend and the nearest house was like 3 miles away BUT if the people are letting their dogs run free and they come on their property then they'll take care of them just like a coyote. These boys are downright serious deer hunters and have invested a lot in food plots and seem to be doing the management thing. They already warned the neighbors that if they caught a dog chasing a deer on their property it might be shot. Supposedly from the crappy season they had last year and the number of sightings they made they have declared all out war on the coyotes.
I just wonder how long before the DNR or PETA finds out about it.
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Post by cfvickers on Jul 4, 2011 15:43:32 GMT -5
I was wondering if that was legal. I cannot imagine where yoyo fishing for coyotes would be considered "sporting".
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Post by pposey on Jul 4, 2011 17:07:54 GMT -5
tis not legal or ethical, IMOP,,, and I hate yotes as much as the next guy,,
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Post by cfvickers on Jul 4, 2011 17:30:57 GMT -5
Apparently not as much as those guys Posey.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 4, 2011 17:56:46 GMT -5
We have a very stable and abundant yote population here. We always thought that these dogs would kill everything eventually. However, this has not been the case. Our turkeys are fairly abundant and the deer are crazy in numbers. Many coyotes can make a decent living on small game and road kills. Surely they take some deer (probably wounded ones, sick ones and maybe some opportunistic fawns) and surely some turkeys, eggs and chicks here and there.
I shoot them when it doesn't interfere with a deer hunt. However, the method described above doesn't impress me as viable....and it is more cruel than any other method. Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older but...whatever. Yotes and foxes mainly eat what they kill to survive. It's no different then our urge/desire to hunt. We will go to great lengths to ensure our sporting animals thrive and completely come unglued when something else wants to eat supper.
Not sure what others think but there has to be better ways for civilized sportsmen to control predators that have tipped the balance. If I ever found such a device in the woods, I would make a call.
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Post by adk on Jul 4, 2011 18:37:52 GMT -5
"Not sure what others think but there has to be better ways for civilized sportsmen to control predators that have tipped the balance. If I ever found such a device in the woods, I would make a call."
I totally agree. Calling yotes into the gun is way to much fun to have such a valuable resource wasted. I'd make that call also.
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Post by ozark on Jul 4, 2011 18:47:59 GMT -5
Hunting coyotes with dogs or calling them to you area so as to get a shot I can see as a sporting way to keep the population thin. The method described seems to be more than a little sadistic and I can't imagine it being legal. I happen to dislike black bear but never would i use poison or the method that they are using. Their method is cruel and could serve no purpose to enhance to image of hunters. Good hunters just don't stoop that low.
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Post by Richard on Jul 4, 2011 19:50:08 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I agree whole hartedly but when you watch Swamp People on the History channel (or whatever channel its on?) Don't they do the exact same thing hunting gators? And its legal?
Richard
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 4, 2011 20:35:48 GMT -5
Not sure what your angle is here Richard......Are you saying that trout or bass fishing is the same thing too?
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Post by ozark on Jul 4, 2011 20:56:44 GMT -5
I see a big difference in squatting a fly with a fly swat and having a coyote hang by treble hooks all night long, We all have our own code of behavior. If I caught a man sexually molesting a child I would not report it. If they determined later that I cause his death then I would probably be punished. But in my own mind it would be justified killing.
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Post by chuck41 on Jul 4, 2011 23:24:35 GMT -5
When the DNR boys find a predator causing problems, or overpopulation of deer causing depredation of habitat they poison them with no second thought about the sportsmanship of it. Even warned our club if we didn't kill more does they would poison the excess a couple years ago.
When a trapper needs furs to pay the bills, they use a leg hold trap that leaves the creature struggling all night till he returns and finishes the job with no thought about the sportsmanship of it. But when a liberal socialite sees the US military using overpowering force they scream to high heaven it is is unfair to the terrorist! Why did they use all that fancy stuff to get Osama anyway? Unfair!!! A lot of this is just different viewpoints especially among folk not directly involved.
Some of the guys on our lease have gone to trapping hogs leaving them panicked and fearful all night till they return to finish the job with a bullet to the ear. It is not about sportsmanship, it is about economic survival. Lots of coyotes and no deer means no club members just as surely as thousands of deer and devastated corn crops means a hungry farmer and his family. A deer club with a hog problem will face hardships and destroyed feeders, food plots, and habitat that also results in loss of membership and ultimately the ability to pay the lease. Desperate situations sometimes call for desperate measures.
Not saying this is ideal method to deal with the situation, only that I can't judge someone when I haven't seen the world through his eyes. Would certainly be better to get some dedicated yote hunters to call them in for kills, but not necessarily practical. Not a lot of dedicated yote hunters in our section of the woods. Mostly just deer hunters that will shoot them when they see them while deer hunting.
Since this was apparently at "the cabin" I would assume it to be on private land or a deer lease where if you saw it you would be trespassing to do so. Kinda hard to drop a dime on something like that. I agree it is kinda cruel, but Richard's got a point about the swamp people and their gators. Only difference is we warm blooded types usually have more compassion for something with fur on it - - unless of course it has a long skinny naked tail. Then anything is fair, just ask your wife the next time that mouse "as big as a German shepherd" runs across her kitchen floor.
Personally I consider yotes as vermin, not assets but that's just me. Anything that even the buzzards won't eat has got to be of little worth. We have seen when yote populations go down deer populations go up and when yote populations go up and deer populations go down. Also seen when it seemed the reverse happened??? Not sure the connection, but a big yote population certainly makes the rabbit and quail populations decline. Just about ended those sports in our area of Arkansas. We shoot every yote we see, but have never yet resorted to fishing for them. However, if I could figure out a way to do that for hogs I would do it in a minute and I am pretty sure with the complete blessing of the AR DNR folk.
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Post by youp50 on Jul 5, 2011 3:39:10 GMT -5
I have trapped in the past, very few animals struggle all night. Most would be bedded down awaiting their fate. Of course anything caught in a water set is drowned.
No hogs here so I cannot imagine the habitat they damage.
Lots of wolves. They are very good at eating fawns. Probably good at eating piglets, too.
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Post by billc on Jul 5, 2011 6:40:33 GMT -5
Fishing for yotes isn't something I probably would do, but I don't have a big problem with it. I too think it isn't any worse than a leg trap or poison.
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Post by rossman40 on Jul 5, 2011 10:59:20 GMT -5
I have to agree it is a bit cruel and perhaps a drastic measure. My biggest worry would be getting something like the neighbors dog or a bobcat. I would think if the DNR found a bobcat on your hook somebody would be going to jail. If you have a serious coyote problem it takes a serious response. Guys around here are using snares, that is almost as cruel From what I understand they thought they would bag 3 or 4 and was shocked to bag 15. Would a call, decoy and rifle style hunt have been as successful? A interesting study OSU was involved in a few years ago, ohioline.osu.edu/b929/pdf/b929.pdfIf in a urban environment the coyotes diet was 22% deer (of course how much was scavenged from road kills), in SE Ohio who knows what the percentage is. Supposedly they can wipe out half the fawns dropped each year. A old timer told me he has watched them come after smelling the does water break and will follow the doe till she starts giving birth and then run in a snatch the fawn while it is only half way out |
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Post by ozark on Jul 5, 2011 11:43:45 GMT -5
Cruel, justified or whatever, It is fuel for the anti hunters to use. Non hunters could be converted to anti hunters by seeing or hearing about grab hooking animals. I admit that I feel sorry for anything that is suffering needlessly. Like a gut shot deer suffering because of a careless shot. I just don't feel like congratulating anyone who has gut shot a deer. I can see that drastic measures are needed when turkeys and fawns are being exterminated. I have killed several predators without feeling sad about it. But when I have killed in anger I have felt bad. I guess my personality could use a good overhaul. Ben
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Post by mike3132 on Jul 5, 2011 14:36:49 GMT -5
I read somewhere 30% of fawn mortality was caused by coyotes, so approximately 1 out 3 fawns that die are killed by yotes. I personally don't care how someone kills a yote as long as its dead. I don't think the method they used is illegal in Ohio. Unless its illegal then more power to them. Mike
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Post by cfvickers on Jul 5, 2011 14:51:41 GMT -5
If it is legal our opinions of it as a means of "hunting them" is irrelevant. I still don't like it but law is law.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jul 5, 2011 16:57:10 GMT -5
hanging something like that 5' in the air scares me.. Kids are kids and pets are pets... some might accidentally wander on to someone else's land. And then catch a snagging hook in the face or eye? Years ago when I was in the army in Kansas they outlawed "gas gun's " that discharged cyanide crystals like a shotgun into a large area. Hitting whatever walked by it..then reloading. These were outlawed for a reason. I have a friend who is a retired sheriff. He told me of such things around drug plots and lab area's. Here in Illinois that could land you in trouble. There are safer ways to reduce coyote population. There are ton's of guys who would jump at the chance to help out
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Post by pposey on Jul 5, 2011 17:29:26 GMT -5
I see a lot of difference between a leghold trap and hanging with a hook in your mouth for hours, I usta trap alot as a kid,,, managed to catch my own hand a couple of times in a #2 twin coilspring,, that was a shock and it hurt but nothing compared to having a tooth knocked out, in later years, bet hanging from a hook would be even worse, I also caught a couple dogs in legholds that I'm sure had a sore leg but nothing seemed broken, and they could walk/run when released,, snares are a better option, and as far as the legality, I doubt any DNR would look the other way if they found this being practiced. If they were dispatching the animal right away it would be different and as far as comparing yotes to gators there is a huge intelligence difference there,
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Post by youp50 on Jul 5, 2011 17:53:06 GMT -5
I would have some very serious problem if my dog would wander onto their land and was found hanging by the mouth... or worse yet shot after hanging. There is a scenario where I become a ward of the State.
As far as someone shooting my dog running a deer. They would find out how valuable my dog was. Even game law enforcement people are refraining from that practice. There is a clause in the Constitution banning the practice of depriving an individual of property with out due process of the law. It has left the State of Georgia paying for a dog, court costs, and attorney fees.
The practice is more humane than using 20 pound fish line, because you do not want the animal detained on your property.
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Post by esshup on Jul 20, 2011 18:04:28 GMT -5
I was at a QDMA seminar last weekend put on by Dr. Grant Woods. Interesting 'yote facts. They put a tracking device in the uterus of does, and it started beeping when it was pushed out by the birth of a fawn. The graduate students had to get to the birthing site within 4 hrs. In one area they found that 70% of the fawns were eaten by the time the graduate student arrived. They could take a swab (like used on CSI) and swab the kill/birthing site. They could tell whether it was a male or female fawn, whether it was a male or female 'yote or dog, and if the 'yote or dog was related to the other kill sites.
In another study, when 'yotes were heavily killed, by any means possible (he said trapping was the most effective if done by an experienced trapper) deer fawns had a 276% less mortality rate than an area that coyotes weren't managed.
Their study also showed that shooting a 'yote on a deer stand had no outcome on the deer hunt. (how they did that I have no idea)
His take is kill them all if you are managing for deer, by any means possible. I don't go along with the treble hook method.....
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Post by 153 on Jul 23, 2011 12:20:04 GMT -5
A yote will killed by any means possible. I will treat the yote the same way. I spend too much money and my time invested into deer management to worry about how a yote dies.
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Post by rjhans53 on Jul 28, 2011 20:40:58 GMT -5
I have met some good ole boys in GA that swear by a hook setup using sardines for the "bait". I agree maybe it seems a bit barbaric, but if you ran your lines twice a day, I wouldn't condemn anyone for using the method.
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Post by youp50 on Jul 29, 2011 6:29:49 GMT -5
...until someone walks by and gets one of those trebles in his eye. Sardines were stolen by a bird and the teenager was intent on something other than a dangling hook.
My Grandma used to say "Its always fun and games till someone loses an eye."
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Post by pposey on Aug 5, 2011 16:50:27 GMT -5
What about the bear that eats one of those hooks and dies from injuries/infection/starvation, someone’s Labrador that gets loose and wonders by,,, and just the fact that you are hanging a live animal from a hook in its mouth,, heck I would consider it cruel to catch a squirrel in that manor,,,,,,
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Post by rjhans53 on Aug 5, 2011 17:01:02 GMT -5
I grant you that it's has drawbacks, but so do conibears set with bait for fox and yotes or any dry set as far as that goes. As far as bears, ain't none where they were talking about doing it, I'm not saying it's something i would do but they really swear by it. Oh buy the way, the set doesn't kill so if you did hook a dog, you could release them. Birds aren't in the mix cause they are using BIG hooks, they call em shark hooks
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Post by dannoboone on Aug 5, 2011 18:57:34 GMT -5
"heck I would consider it cruel to catch a squirrel in that manor,,,,,,"
What about a rat?
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Post by chuck41 on Aug 5, 2011 20:28:20 GMT -5
"heck I would consider it cruel to catch a squirrel in that manor,,,,,," What about a rat? Come on Dano. Dont malign a self respecting rat by comparing him with yotes. |
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Post by pposey on Aug 5, 2011 20:52:05 GMT -5
catching rats hanking by a hook? ya I would consider that to much,and I hate a flippin rat,, it's not like they are setting there watching the trap, they are letting the critters hang for hours, for me that is the point. Were I starving and had to catch something to eat in that manor yes I would do it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 22:04:02 GMT -5
With rats you have to use a heavy leader they would bite through 20lb stren no problem.
Eglin Air Force Base in Florida has more coyotes than the law allows. Their excremate usually has fawn hoofs in it,they really piss me off...like another here mentioned,QDMA strongly promotes yote control,they most likely wouldn't openly condone
the TROT line approach to control,but might mention it as a possible.IMO. I'm on the fence here yotes are smart and can be hard to kill.
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