|
Post by fishhawk on Jun 15, 2011 12:00:22 GMT -5
Due to all the problems keeping everyone happy McGowen/savage-barrels.com has decided to quit selling ML barrels. All orders that have been made are promised to be filled to satisfaction. I personally don't want to bring out the details that have led up to this on the forum. This is probably a good decision for them and us. I will look for another way to get what we need made. Any contacts, or suggestions?...Greg Hawk (Fishhawk) ADDITION: apparently they will no longer sell pre-fit barrels.
|
|
|
Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 15, 2011 12:26:35 GMT -5
Wow, sorry to hear that.
|
|
|
Post by 500cadillac on Jun 15, 2011 12:34:11 GMT -5
Is it that hard to machine for a Savage breechplug? Too bad, I was thinking of getting one of these.
What about Shilen?
|
|
|
Post by dave d. on Jun 15, 2011 13:35:12 GMT -5
I tried to get shilen to make a drop in savage barrel awhile back but to no avail. Maybe they will re think? Greg sorry all your hard work didn't pan out with mcgowen.
|
|
|
Post by rangeball on Jun 15, 2011 13:35:33 GMT -5
Montana rifle barrels does good work but they are heavy into AR barrels at the moment, I think. Nice guys to talk to in case you want to reach out to them. Couldn't hurt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2011 16:35:44 GMT -5
I just got off the phone with Dan from McGowen. Very nice guy to talk with and my barreled action is heading back so it can be cleaned up. I think there may have been some misunderstandings about McGowen not making barrels for the 700ML's.
|
|
|
Post by fishhawk on Jun 15, 2011 18:08:45 GMT -5
I will talk to Dan personally tomorrow to verify what I was told.
|
|
|
Post by 12ptdroptine on Jun 15, 2011 19:50:32 GMT -5
I hope they will re-consider.. I was thinking of my next build.... a ways out but thats how they all start drop
|
|
|
Post by fishhawk on Jun 15, 2011 20:44:48 GMT -5
I know for a fact that Jon at savage-barrels-com will not take ML barrel orders. When I asked Jon if we could still order from McGowen he said "no". Maybe he didn't understand McGowens intentions or misunderstood my question. I will find out for sure tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by savagebarrels on Jun 15, 2011 21:26:24 GMT -5
I spoke with mcgown today and they said that because of the issues that they have seen with the ML barrels that what they would like to do for a while is if anyone wants one they will need to send in their action to ensure that everything is correct. They said that the issues with the breech plugs and the engraving were costing them a lot of money and until they get a feel for "standardization" that they would prefer to do it this way. They will do the installation for $40.00 which seems like a really fair price. This way they can headspace them properly and afterwhich they can do the engraving where it belongs. Right now they said that doing the engraving is basically a "crap-shoot" because they don't know where it will line up and as they said "no two Remington actions are the same" there are always variances in the headspace dimension and fitting the breech plug short so someone can "file" the breech plug down has liability written all over it. So in a word, mcgowen will do the barrels if they do the installation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2011 22:11:53 GMT -5
Jon thanks for posting that. That is what Dan told me and 40.00 is very reasonable IMO to have the barrel put on and fitted.
|
|
|
Post by hornet22savage on Jun 15, 2011 22:19:47 GMT -5
Are they only doing bolt action ML or will they do others styles?
|
|
|
Post by nexttime on Jun 15, 2011 23:35:23 GMT -5
So we deal directly with McGowen from now on? I have a stock Savage begging for an upgrade. Was hoping the more afforadable route would work out.
|
|
|
Post by 500cadillac on Jun 15, 2011 23:49:42 GMT -5
Did Mcgowen ever make ML barrels for the Savage action? Are they still?
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jun 16, 2011 8:53:37 GMT -5
Did Mcgowen ever make ML barrels for the Savage action? Are they still? I would assume making one for a Savage is a tiny bit easier since they have better barrel/action tolerances to go by. If they have a OEM Savage barrel and plug, it seems like a easier task. I thought they had one or two. I sure hope they will still make them for the Savage or i will just order a pre built custom 45cal. ATM i can afford either option and an out of the box complete 45cal SML is becoming more appealing. Then i will just leave my Savage a 50cal and make a few upgrades.
|
|
|
Post by fishhawk on Jun 16, 2011 14:43:34 GMT -5
I told Jon at savage-barrels to address posts 11,12,&13.
|
|
|
Post by lwh723 on Jun 17, 2011 14:05:59 GMT -5
Wow... that majorly stinks. I was planning on ordering 2 or 3 later this month.
|
|
|
Post by hoz on Jun 17, 2011 16:20:07 GMT -5
I would have no problem ordering directly from McGowen, especially if they will barrel the action and headspace it for a $40 bill. I am pleased with mine thus far. Cant wait to get it back from a little TLC from Hillbill.
|
|
|
Post by bush7mmstw on Jun 17, 2011 19:43:53 GMT -5
I'm no expert but $40 over the life of the gun that insures you have a quality product and satisfies the liability issue for McGowan sounds like a fair trade and small price to pay. I can see McGowan's point, their company, their rules.
|
|
|
Post by fishhawk on Jun 17, 2011 20:13:43 GMT -5
I've e-mailed Jon at savage-barrels, and called Dan at McGowen trying to get some answers on the who and how on getting ML barrels. Dan was out today, maybe I'll hear Monday....
|
|
|
Post by sinarms on Jun 17, 2011 20:42:05 GMT -5
I have used many mcgowen blanks over the last couple of years. If my Brux barrel goes well I will get a custom reamer made for cutting the Savage breech plug and I will be offering Brux and Mcgowen 45cal muzzle loader barrels.
|
|
|
Post by lwh723 on Jun 17, 2011 20:45:56 GMT -5
Yeah, $40 isn't bad at all if it's just one gun, but I was planning on doing 2 or 3. With postage, that adds up quickly.
And if you look at it this way...$55 to ship your action and get it fitted + $289 = $344 which has you knocking on the door for the price of a PacNor. Still a little cheaper, but at that point it's close enough that I'd pay the extra for the PacNor reputation for ML barrels.
Personally, I think the liability thing is somewhat of a cop-out. If you're worried about liability, you shouldn't be selling barrels to the people on this board.
|
|
|
Post by sw on Jun 18, 2011 17:24:34 GMT -5
Yeah, $40 isn't bad at all if it's just one gun, but I was planning on doing 2 or 3. With postage, that adds up quickly. And if you look at it this way...$55 to ship your action and get it fitted + $289 = $344 which has you knocking on the door for the price of a PacNor. Still a little cheaper, but at that point it's close enough that I'd pay the extra for the PacNor reputation for ML barrels. Personally, I think the liability thing is somewhat of a cop-out. If you're worried about liability, you shouldn't be selling barrels to the people on this board. The problem is that each receiver has slightly different dimensions. If this were on a Sav instead of a Rem, this wouldn't be a problem. We can do the Sav's on the kitchen table but the Rem is a different animal. $40 to custom fit and get the headspacing correct is more than reasonable. Sure there are those with the skills and equipment to properly headspace the Rem: I'm not one of them, nor apparently a # of others.
|
|
|
Post by deadon on Jun 18, 2011 20:03:19 GMT -5
sw, your knowledge never ceases to amaze me!!!!!------ Thanks for being here-------- especially since Rick passed away.
|
|
|
Post by cuda on Jun 19, 2011 2:21:14 GMT -5
Look at it this way some one wants to change the barrel on their gun. You would need a wrench $40 then you still need a gun vise and a torque wrench. So now the shipping and $40 to get the job done right. Does not look like that bad of a deal. Some do not have the tools to do the job right. But are still capable doing it.
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Jun 19, 2011 7:40:10 GMT -5
Lwh723, There's no such thing as assembly line CUSTOM rifles. I frankly don't know how they agreed to wade neck deep into the "do it yourself" thing anyway. I commend McGowen for taking the reins and still be willing to provide a product to those that will let them have control of THIER work from start to finnish. The Rem 700ML and other like actions require a competent Master Gunsmith for a rebarrel--period. The breechplug design requires as much or more accuracy than chambering a CF with a reamer. With a CF the reamer can be run in and checked incrementally whereas the breechplug has to end up exact the first time. Especially with 209 ignition. I can't see a customer expecting McGowen to stand behind their work if the end user takes a side grinder to the BP for final fitting. It's just being unrealistic. When we do our 700ML .32ACP conversions, the customer's rifle is sent back fully functional and ready to use. You can call it Liability or headache insurance but I agree with McGowen's decision. If they end up offering their services for that of Pac-Nor, so be it. It takes what it takes and maybe they were too quick on their original estimate. But because of their efforts we STILL have a choice. We can choose which action AND which barrel for our build. If it's only about the cost-- that's just sad.
|
|
|
Post by lwh723 on Jun 19, 2011 9:27:03 GMT -5
\We can choose which action AND which barrel for our build. If it's only about the cost-- that's just sad. Would you explain why that's sad? Some of us are at the point in our life where a $100 bill does matter. If cost isn't important, then a person would be crazy to choose Mcgowen over Pacnor.
|
|
|
Post by moto357 on Jun 19, 2011 11:48:59 GMT -5
$100 is a lot to some of us, myself included. but i didn't let this determine what i did or did not buy during the building of my rem.. it was hard sometimes i will admit between scope, barrel, mounts, stock, etc etc. i do like the idea of having a CHOICE becuase both companies offer different options. im curious if the McGowen barrels are offered in other calibers besides the 45, that would certainly earn them a place with the dougs' crowd
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Jun 19, 2011 12:44:06 GMT -5
A Remington barrel can be made to be as easily set up as that for a Savage. There are 700 fans who have switch-barrel setups on Rem 700 actions. Drawbacks? It requires the "ugly" barrel nut, more threading on the barrel, and some inletting on the stock to relieve the area for the barrel nut. This costs a little more for the initial setup, but it can be done.
For those who never plan to change to another barrel, this added cost would not be the way to go. However, if someone planned to have .40, .45, and .50 barrels, or a CF action and plan to switch back and forth from ML to CF, it would certainly be worth giving consideration.
|
|
|
Post by sw on Jun 19, 2011 15:12:19 GMT -5
sw, your knowledge never ceases to amaze me!!!!!------ Thanks for being here-------- especially since Rick passed away. Rusty, You way over-estimate me. I do have a good feel about loads and hopefully take a common-sense approach to bullet/ load combinations but am not in the same league as the seriously knowledgable gun people on this board. This is a board where we all share our collective experiences and knowledge and all are the better for this. I know of no-one "currently" on this board who is here for validation, etc. This is an unbelievably non-selfish, non-self serving board where we can come primarily to learn and share our 2 cents. Having been involved since a little before the initial sales of the 10-ML and just confirming loads of TB as he directed(including the infamous Ltl Gn - have scares on my wrist and face to confirm that , I have run the gammet of 50 cal, 45 saboted, 45 sabotless, and 40 cal. I know I have heralded the 40 sabotless/ duplex adnauseam, but have come to believe it is the best of the non- exotic smokeless MLing. I still believe duplex in any cal when using a land riding bullet is best. 40 cal sabotless is also my choice considering flatness and reduced recoil. Thanks anyway for the undeserved compliment. Next big innovation may well be Tom's die and 40 cal usage.
|
|