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Post by dennis31 on May 4, 2011 13:54:02 GMT -5
Got a chance to sneek out to the range today and shoot savage shooters 11/54 4759/H322 Duplex B/H XTP 200gn Win209. Range conditions were light rain 64F when started 58F when finished, unfortunately no chrono due to rain. 5min between shots and swabbed inbetween shots with dry cotton patch.
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Post by Savage Shooter on May 4, 2011 14:18:07 GMT -5
I would expect this speed to be about 2735fps from a 25" barrel. I did notice that the TC Shockwave and Barnes 195bx both group tighter than the XTP with this load, course they always seem to group better for me with every load. (I quit shooting the new SST's due to too much radius on base).
I don't know if many have noticed it here but the Shockwave and SST are not exactly the same bullet in the .400 diameter bullets. The Shockwave has a much flatter base than the SST.......when we talked to Hornady about this they are very evasive and only responded that they produce the Shockwave to meet "TC's Specs".
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Post by edge on May 4, 2011 14:28:54 GMT -5
Did you take a break between the groups?
Just wondering if 4,5,9 opened up due to a heated barrel.
1,2,3,6,7,8 are all about 1 inch...very nice.
edge.
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Post by dennis31 on May 4, 2011 15:02:40 GMT -5
savage shooter, ive been shooting the xtps because there reasonabley priced ;D. The shockwaves around here are about $13/15bullets. I will be going to the barnes eventually, but from now till fall it will be warmer than my hunting conditions so i see no need in wasting money shooting expensive ammo till fall. Edge, I had about a 10 min break in between the two targets as others went down range to fix and retreive targets.As far as number 4 that shoot felt fine, 5 i dont know what happened there but i did find all my sabots and there was one that the pedals were really twisted where the others were not weather taht was 5 i dont know. 9 felt ok too but i could have rushed it being the last shot and all.
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Post by Richard on May 4, 2011 16:03:14 GMT -5
Dennis..........very good! It just seems to be the nature of the beast. I can't explain it? ?? Everything seems to be right.........the hold, sight picture, trigger squeeze........the whole nine yards and "Bingo!" The shot goes out of the group Sometimes I can see it in the velocity reading and other times not? Even when the velocity reading is way off from the other shots I wonder.........WHY? We need Edge's PVC sabots ;D Richard
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Post by dave d. on May 4, 2011 16:03:23 GMT -5
:)Dennis looks like a good start to me. Look forward to future targets.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 17:48:20 GMT -5
Nice shooting!!! Maybe next time number your sabots with a marker. If you can find them again maybe it will help in the "what happened on that shot ?" Your "off " shots were not bad at all . It does make you wonder though why/ what shredded those sabots. That load looks to be winner keep it up, Greenhorn
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Post by Richard on May 4, 2011 21:37:03 GMT -5
Dennis.........you showed the twisted petals but how did the skirt on the base look? That is the important part. If it resembles the other sabots, then in my opinion, don't worry about the petals. Richard
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Post by dennis31 on May 5, 2011 4:20:23 GMT -5
hadnt thought about numbering them, but thats a good idea. Looked at the skirts and bases and all looked similar. ill have to shoot this load again and see what happens. hopefully with the chrono this time. ;D
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Post by edge on May 5, 2011 7:32:05 GMT -5
Dennis.........you showed the twisted petals but how did the skirt on the base look? That is the important part. If it resembles the other sabots, then in my opinion, don't worry about the petals. Richard Hmmm.....I wouldn't go that far! How do you know what caused the petal damage? Good bases only tell you that that you probably did not completely blow the sabot, it tells you very little about the bullet/sabot/bore interaction. If the bore is warm the thin petals will be the first thing to fail and I suspect that may be what is seen here. I would be very interested in seeing 5 two shot groups with 10 or 15 minutes between groups. I like the idea of the sabot labeled 1-10 if you have the ability to recover them. edge.
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Post by dennis31 on May 5, 2011 11:26:19 GMT -5
maybe something like this ;D. unfortunately i wont be able to get to the range today but ill try those 2 shot groups.
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Post by Richard on May 5, 2011 12:11:49 GMT -5
Edge........you do have a point Richard
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Post by Jon on May 5, 2011 12:30:16 GMT -5
Very interesting. Has anyone ever decided at what temp the sabot seems to get too soft? Another words can just ambiant temp alone do it? I don't mean a gun set ouy in the sun but kept in the shade. Jon
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Post by dennis31 on May 5, 2011 18:15:40 GMT -5
I forgot to show the sabot bases. Here they are. The 2 on the right were the most twisted. They deffinately dont look like when they come out of the package .
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Post by hunter on May 6, 2011 5:06:36 GMT -5
These sabots already have a number stamped in the base. But there are often duplicate numbers in each pack.
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Post by tar12 on May 6, 2011 6:59:40 GMT -5
Edge is spot on with the twisted sabots. It is heat related. I have seen varying degrees of partial failure like this before. Heat,sabot size,and being off 1/10th of a grn can attribute to that "wild one". It is a very fine line we run when shooting in the heat.These are greatly reduced by shooting in the fall and winter time.
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Post by chuck41 on May 6, 2011 7:52:55 GMT -5
Is this a 50 or a 45 cal gun? I have found H322 to be be very accurate with my 40 shooting sabotless as well. Don't need a duplex there and those XTP 200s are very good deer killers. Don't expect a pass through, but lots of entry damage and big blood trails that lead very shortly to a dead deer.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 8:12:00 GMT -5
Chuck I believe he's shooting .45 cal. Yeah, I have black sabots so marking them will be difficult,but I just saw the problem of matching shot to sabot especially "off shots" and the blue sabots can be easily marked so......I'm glad I finally could help a little instead of taking in. Hope it helps on figuring out what's going on. Greenhorn
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Post by dennis31 on May 6, 2011 15:20:12 GMT -5
Well I was able to get to the range today. Gun is .45 cal 26". Edge had asked next time to try (5) 2 shot groups with 10-15 min in between groups. I had planned that but on the third loading i had spilled some of the main charge so it turned into (4) 2 shot groups. Shots 1+2 5min before loading2, 15min break.shot3 then 10min break range stopped. shot 4 then 15min break.shot 5+6 5min between loading6.15min break. shot 7+8 5min before loading8. I had numberd the inside of the sabots with a ultra fine point sharpie. Unfortunatley the range got busy and i was only able to recover sabots 1,5+6, no major damage, 1+6 were missing 1 petal base+skirt fine.On shot 3 it was very hard to load and velocity jump 100fps, i would have liked to have recovered that sabot but it never happened. 1 2624 2 2604 3 2704 4 2661 5 2726 6 2635 7 2624 8 2624
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Post by rangeball on May 6, 2011 15:25:45 GMT -5
Mighty nice job
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Post by Richard on May 6, 2011 16:42:19 GMT -5
Very nice Dennis! Good shooting. I especially like your target presentation. Very clear and no "head scratching" to figure out what your trying to show. Maybe others will follow suite Richard
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Post by jims on May 6, 2011 18:21:13 GMT -5
Nice series of holes. Good shooting.
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Post by deadon on May 6, 2011 20:31:47 GMT -5
Dennis, great shooting and some of us should learn from your humble post. I have not goten into the duplexes ye BUT, May be in the future Rusty
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2011 10:38:49 GMT -5
Great shooting, I am surprised that 3 out of 8 shots were 2624fps. You are doing something right ,lol. Greenhorn
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Post by tar12 on May 7, 2011 11:26:08 GMT -5
Dennis did you swab in between shots with the last set of groups? It looks like you did not as your groups actually imoroved while the ambient temp was hotter.
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Post by dennis31 on May 7, 2011 18:31:29 GMT -5
Tar you are correct. I had swabbed only between shots 1-4 with a dry patch. I had left my patches at home and had dropped the one i was using in the dirt and didnt swab for the last four. Hopefully next time ill get similar results to see if this past session was just a fluke or not.
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Post by tar12 on May 7, 2011 20:12:46 GMT -5
Tar you are correct. I had swabbed only between shots 1-4 with a dry patch. I had left my patches at home and had dropped the one i was using in the dirt and didnt swab for the last four. Hopefully next time ill get similar results to see if this past session was just a fluke or not. I doubt if it was fluke.My .50 as well as .45s accuracy is better shooting dirty for a specific window.This is repeatable. I find this accuracy will last the entire hunting season with ease.Your forearm pressure increased ever so slightly for shot no.8 ;D Good shootin!
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Post by dave d. on May 7, 2011 20:23:14 GMT -5
:)very nice dennis.i always shoot my guns dirty and they all love it that way.simple and easy.
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Post by dennis31 on May 7, 2011 20:46:13 GMT -5
so what your saying Tar is that by pulling the forerarm in tighter than the other shots towards the shoulder, caused the shot to go left. So if held looser shot could go possibly right or high? so pressure differences would be the cause of horizontal stringing, makes sense. Dave and Tar do you shoot dirty till accuracy starts to go away or becomes to difficult to load? Do you run a 5/32 drill bit through the breech plug before each shooting session?
Thanks, Dennis
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2011 20:48:36 GMT -5
dennis, by all means shoot it dirty. my pacnor .45 likes a fouled barrel.... good shooting
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