Munden Krieger 45 Parker 325 and 275

[rkrobson]

I got some good news deadeye. I hope its of value to you. In January I bought a kreiger 45/456 sts 1:20 to try the Kreiger barrels and the DD 700 C plug and get a drop for a full form die. I found nobody to do the chambering so I called Justin Munden and had him chamber and provide his plug. The gun arrived Thursday and I shot it for the first time yesterday. The instructions were 68 grs VV N120 with the Parker 275 BE no wad or 66 grs VV N120 with the Parker 325 BE wonder wad, do no cleaning between shots on either. Run the 275 twice through a provided .449 die and run the 325s once through the .449 die. Always load the gun with a fired primer on nipple as powder will fall through flash hole otherwise. let me say this, I have never not cleaned between shots as I hunt mostly with Pyrodex or BH 209, and assumed a clean bore was the ticket, as you could load a tighter knurled bullet. The 275s load easy, much looser than my saboted 50 and I personally have never loaded a bullet so easy sabotless. The 325s went down easier than the 275s. Well the first group with the 275s at 100 yds was .375(pix) and the 325s was .6"(no wad as I forgot my wads yesterday) I went to 300 yds and the 325s were 1.25" (pix)and the 275s were 2.5". It got breezy, so I went out this moring and set my first box at 522 yds as this was line 7 on my Zeiss Rapid Z 800 scope, 6" round group. I went to 600 yds, line 8 (last hold overline) and shot an 11" vertical string(pix) 5 shots, Iam using wads today, and I did have to raise reticle 1.75"moa to recenter shots making me question Zeiss calculator or bullet bc. Having noticed the looser fit of the 325s, I had asked Justin about knurling them and he told me not to make them any tighter than the 275s are and that tight fitting bullets will yield erratic velocities . I had my Corbin knurler with me and I adjusted it to very lightly knurl the .449s. They were slightly snug, you still did not need a short starter. I shot the final group(pix) which was exactly 4" @600 yds. There were no tumblers on either 600 yd group. I only chronographed yesterday and the 275s were 2811 fps for 6 shots 2783 to 2823. The 325s were 2641 fps avg 2629 to 2655 for 8 shots. I don't know what the knurled 325s with wads chronographed today, but I assume this may have tightened the group up. Justin told me my gun needed cleaning after 5 shots with 4198, but that VV120 burned very clean in it, fortunately I had several pounds around and now have 5 pounds on order. Iam very happy as these are my best groups ever at 300 yds and beyond. I cleaned after yesterdays 25 shots and had some copper, mainly at the muzzle. I assume the Pacs may like this powder and loading proceedure. Iam still going to get the full form die as I feel it will aid with BH 209, etc, I hope the pixs post as its been years, Ray sorry this is the 600 yd 4" group, the tape fell down as I was taking pix with cell phone. Pix instructions in help section won't open for me to get the instructions to post more than one pix

[smokeless77]

rkrobson, very nice shooting, Way to start off the day.

[deadeye]

rkrobson- boy,there are a lot of similarities from your set-up to mine loading wise etc. congrats on the nice long range group. was sitting here looking over data from ql estimates,traces done by tg,log book data & its quite clear ,i need more powder to obturate properly & it will be safe. thx for sharing-perfect -timing!

[Dave W]

WOW! Remarkable shooting!!!

Any idea how much pressure those loads are?

Like to see a pic of the plug also if possible. Assuming no vent liner?

Fantastic results!

[Jon]

Great info. I would also be interested in the plug info.

[rkrobson]

No idea on pressure, but no pressure signs, very snug fitting 308 case reamed unifrom inside on a modified Knight plug, similiar to what Richards Custom was doing. Let me ask Justin about disclosing plug specifics. Justin told me he was surprised the 325s even hit the target at 100 yds with no wad, could be the .456 bore? My zero was 160 yds and the 300 yd holdover line was perfect, but at 522 yd line was 10" low, I made the 1.75"(7clicks) adjustment and then went to 600 yd and no further adjustment was necessary. I did use wads yesterday, so Iam hoping this changed my point of impact and explains my holdover lines being off, perhaps more velocity, I'll check it out next time. We got snow for Monday and it'll be the end of week before I can get out again. Here's the 100yd 275 group, Ray

[rkrobson]

Sorry for the added post, I still can't open "posting a pix" help, here's the 600 yd vertically strung group, Ray

[Jon]

Keep up the great info. Watching with grteat interest

[spoonover]

How many grains of H4198 are recommended?

[rkrobson]

One more quick thought on hold over lines, after reviewing my 300 yd target, I could have moved POI up 3/4", and this would have reduced my correction to 1"moa, still 6" at 600 yds, here's that group, ok, got to get ready for church, Ray

[jims]

Amazing shooting right out of the box. I just sent in an order for a 1 in 28 .45 barrel, makes me think you have the right idea.

[dave d.]

:)ray fantastic shooting the buddy. Can't wait to see more pics of loooong range groups. Is that barrel on one of your ultimates? How's the recoil?

[smokeless77]

rkrobson, What Krieger contour did you end up with?
Very nice groups, By the way

[Jon]

This seems to go with SW's thought that if in doubt go faster. Of coarse there are limitations. Just not what used to be thought of as fast. I have a 1/14 twist that as best as I can tell shoots as well as my 1/22. At least at the bullet weight I shoot.
Jon

[Deleted]

very good shooting and interesting info, keep it coming...Bill

[rkrobson]

Yes Dave. The contour is 1.2" dia shank for 5" taper for 2.5 " to 1.06" (Krieger min dimension for 45 cal) then straight taper to .875 at muzzle and finish at 28". Its big and heavy, 12 lbs, but its shoots like a dream. I almost pulled the trigger on the DFT Lead Sled this week, but I decided to shoot this gun first, I did however add a 20 lb bag of lead shot to the front arms of my Sinclair lightweight rest, which was jumping up everytime I shot, what a difference this made. I use the hard hold that someone on this site recomended, pull the gun back and down while firing. My rear bag is a Bruo competition bag filled with "heavy sand".
Bob Parker told me on Friday that he has 2800 or so of the 325s coming in and 2700 plus sold. I said Bob, this bullet is going to make you a very rich man, and I added God bless you for it. Ray

[edge]

Amazing, can't wait to here more

edge.

[bigmoose]

This is sabotless??
Very impressive shooting, hope your young and strong, to hump your rifle, up and down hills[small mountains]

[rkrobson]

Yes sabotless, and its heavier than I would like as I hunt out west. Krieger required the 1.06 at end of radius and then the extra 2" of barrel, both added more than I expected. I should have requested a smaller dia at muzzle as .875 is what I have on Pacs, but at 26", Ray

[artjr338wm]

Rkrobson,
I read in your post you used a tool for knuling you refered to as a "Corbin Knuler"

As I knurl a large amount of Barnes all copper ML bullets I am greatly interested in any tool that might aid me in speeding up and accurizing the knurling process.

Would you please describe for me your Corbin Knurling tool, and how it works and is it a stand alone tool or do I need a external power source to drive/operate it? How exact is this knurling tool in terms of controling the final knurled OD of the bullet?
What does it cost and where do I buy one?

I presently knurl all copper TMZs and Spit Fires and get excellent results shot with sabots out of my .50 cal 10ML-II, but I have some difficulty maintaing a consistant final OD. I knurl my bullets by rolling them between two flat files.

Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated.
Arthur.

[tar12]

Arthur,
Here you go. There are different versions of this for different applications.

www.corbins.com/hct-1.htm

[rkrobson]

Art, it takes the guess work out and adjusts with a 1/4" bolt and nut for a stop(bolt on left in pix), I got the optional case hardened rollers recomended for jacketed bullets. It took 4 months to get it. I was able to put a few 10/1000 on the 325s on Saturday in the field. A note here, the number of revoultions and pressure you use affects the bullet finish size, so I usually go 5 revs with good pressure, this may take a few bullets as copper vs jacketed will give a different result. I love it. I think I payed $175 several years ago. Edge has helped a lot here as I searched all his posts on knurling. If you have a die that gives you the finish size you desire, you can size initially to .448-?, knurl to .450-? and then resize to desired finish size. I did this for my 50 and I felt the die would smooth the knurl in event it was sharp and sticky in sabot. Here's the pix, Ray

[pposey]

awsome shooting!

[onecardchuck]

rkrobson,

Couple quesitons:

1) Would you share the cost of the barrel and the work to get it chambered and
setup?

2) Have you tried shooting these bullets and setup through your 26 inch pacnor and if
so what were the results?

Glad to hear you found someone to get your Kreiger setup for you my local gun shop never got back to me on it. I think it maybe more than he can handle.

[rkrobson]

pm sent, and I'll be out with the Pac asap, as I had Pete make a mod on my 45 plugs that I feel may improve vent life, Ray

[jeremylong]

Looking foreward to more on this one! How about a pic of the gun too?

[Jon]

I would think the longer vent would last longer. I watching with great interest if there are any side effects and how well it holds up?
Jon

[rkrobson]

Not a great pix, but with the long barrel I had to back up, Ray
I went out to set some boxes at 600 yds and decided to shoot a 5 shot 100 yd with the 275s, I shot these as fast as I could load and shoot, the one on top was the 5th shot, whatever that means, 3/4", Ray

[deadeye]

excellent ,ray, correct me if i'm wrong are you testing knurled vs. smooth for accuracy on the 325's. do you have any plans to get the n120 pressure tested,i have approx 6lbs but was not sure if it would cause ignition problems(excessive vent wear) in the standard sav plug on the pac-nor. tia/jeff

[rkrobson]

deadeye, I would love to know the pressure, as Iam just doing what I was told, as Justin gave me this load. Yes, Iam going to shoot the 325 -.449 as is and then the 325.449 that I lightly knurl to obtain the same pressure the 275s go down the tube with. This is not the loading pressure Iam used to, but you can't argue with the groups. These bullets measure .4495 after sizing and knurling. I'd gladly provide bullets and powder to someone who can do the pressure testing, Ray