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Post by deadon on Feb 9, 2011 18:19:43 GMT -5
I seem to get better, more consistent groups with less than the standard expected velocities of smokeless ML shooters. We only have X number of bullets to choose from and none of these IMHO were designed to shoot at the velocities we are pushing them , again IMO. I am getting fairly consistent half inch groups with 56 grs of H 4198 and the 195 gr Barnes or the 200 gr sst. I think this load shoots at around 2450 FPS. I may try less powder in the future hoping for more consistency.For yrs I killed many dear out to 200 yrds shooting 100 gr of T7 under a 260 gr bullet. Anyone know the velocity of that load. I have been called a speed freak due to trying to push rifles, Bows, and xbows to the max but sometimes I too did this at the expense of accuracy and always dropped back to the MOST ACCURATE LOAD.There is much talent on this board but I do not believe we have any bullet makers. We need 40 cal bullets made for smokeless velocities and the terminal performance required for the game we hunt. Enough ramblin Russ. Any thoughts?  ? |
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Post by tar12 on Feb 9, 2011 18:53:14 GMT -5
Your thoughts are nothing new.It is a given that the available "pistol" bullets leave alot to be desired for the speeds we choose to shoot at and there are precious few "rifle" bullets to choose from as well.This poor selection has plagued us from the very beginning and continues to do so. Slowing things down is not a option for me as the .45 is the closest I will come to a "centerfire". The way I see it with our current selection of bullets you either back way off to keep them from fragging or you go all copper and let her rip. I would like to see some thicker skinned jacketd bullets like a 200 grn 40. cal BO or similiar bullet. Here is a thought Rusty....Deadons Custom Bullets,Inc... ;D
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dcon
Spike
Posts: 29
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Post by dcon on Feb 9, 2011 19:04:21 GMT -5
Anyway to get one of the bullert makers to come up with a new design if everyone pre-order enough for them to gear up for it?
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 9, 2011 19:15:05 GMT -5
The bullets are not the best but the weak link is still the sabot, hence the reason some of the lower speed load are still the most accurate. Been pretty well proven that the sabot is about a 40,000psi unit on average. Most of the upper end loads are bumping this. What happens with sabots that "nearly" fail, how many of them are doing just that in the barrel,,,,,,don't have any idea,,,,,,but it is a factor for sure. The harder you push the sabot the more the problems. I say that then I push them to the limit also. Oh Well.........  |
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Post by fishhawk on Feb 9, 2011 19:29:21 GMT -5
I e-mailed some bullet making tooling, and building people a while back about materials and tooling to build a 250-275gr. spitzer in .40 cal but got no response. I've never made a bullet, and only seen crude videos of it on Al Gores web. I figured a higher bc bullet could be built with a jacket heavy enough for our speeds even though a bullet this heavy would slow it down some. Deadons Custom Bullets Inc, does have a nice ring to it. Hope they're cheap but wonderful! PS: this thread doesn't sit well with me! ;D
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Post by pposey on Feb 9, 2011 21:32:08 GMT -5
Heck I've always been the slower/lower guy,,, at least after I mushed my shoulder and had to drop the double killer 300 grain loads,,, Getting awsome groups with 58 grains H4198 out of my 26 inch encore at 2660fps, and almost as good out of my .45 pacnor in the past with 54 grains.
Not a deer critter made that the 195 barnes will not kill at 2600fps,, and the 200xtp seems to work really well at 1900-2000fps
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Post by chuck41 on Feb 9, 2011 22:25:21 GMT -5
Deadon, I think this is the animal you have been looking for. Sorry it is so danged heavy.  Resizes nicely to .400" for me. Haven't shot but a couple to "prove the concept" so to speak. After all I'm a recoil wimp, but this is definitely the ticket. Of course you could go the easy route and just get you some Barnes 195gr coppers. |
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Post by fishhawk on Feb 9, 2011 22:37:48 GMT -5
Chuck41, did it resize in one step? What size die? Did you shoot it saboted? If saboted which sabot worked with your final dimension?
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Post by ET on Feb 10, 2011 0:30:36 GMT -5
Deadon
No upset here.
For me it sums up best choice for need and in my case speed is not the priority need.
Not saying speed is detrimental but accuracy and bullet characteristic behavior with assigned speed weighs heavier with me when choosing a load for hunting. For another person the priority may differ because of range conditions. To each his own.
Ed
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Post by Chris Champion on Feb 10, 2011 9:23:42 GMT -5
There a few .406-.410 rifle bullets available in the 260-300gr range but most are round nose. If you could resize them using a spire point top punch in a good Lyman type resizer, you might find one you like. Ive got some 260gr RNFPs that fit a sabot ok but there isnt much room left imo. BTW in a .451 bore i was able to load a .406 in a Harvester sabot. gmb...was that with the standard blue sabot or crush rib? |
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Post by dave d. on Feb 10, 2011 9:49:47 GMT -5
:)rusty I would love to see more choices myself but the Barnes does everything I need and shoots great in all my .45's.
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Post by chuck41 on Feb 10, 2011 12:21:54 GMT -5
Chuck41, did it resize in one step? What size die? Did you shoot it saboted? If saboted which sabot worked with your final dimension? Used two steps. Step 1 with a Lee .401 die reduce to .4018" Step two with home made finishing die reduce to .400" using an arbor press, 1 ton and ample amounts of Johnson floor wax.. |
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Post by spaniel on Feb 10, 2011 15:59:39 GMT -5
I e-mailed some bullet making tooling, and building people a while back about materials and tooling to build a 250-275gr. spitzer in .40 cal but got no response. I've never made a bullet, and only seen crude videos of it on Al Gores web. I tried to do the research on putting together a home setup to custom make bullets, I came up with a ballpark estimate of $4000-$6000 just to get in the game with a single stage swagging press, if you bought everything new. I was unable to come up with a good source for jackets for large bullets. And this would not include poly tips, I have no idea what is required to do that so your BC would not be as high as the commercial poly tip bullets. |
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Post by rossman40 on Feb 11, 2011 9:29:06 GMT -5
When I got into bullseye pistol there was a sales ad that showed two groups. The tightest group had a sign that said "these bullets got here last". I think it was a ad for Winchester T22 rimfire target ammo. It has long been known the most accurate round is not always the fastest.
So you have a trade-off, do you give up accuracy for more speed and less drop down range? Myself in the past I felt "the need for speed" but with the newer bullets you do not need an extra 400fps. If you go with a accurate load you can take neck shots out to 100yds with the right shot set-up. Knowing you can put a bullet within 1" of where you aim is priceless.
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Post by pposey on Feb 11, 2011 10:02:42 GMT -5
"Knowing you can put a bullet within 1" of where you aim is priceless. "
Ohhhh ya,,, especially when you hunt the brush like I do
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Post by deadeye on Feb 11, 2011 14:43:12 GMT -5
rusty, im thinking your t7/260should be in the 1700-1900fps range. i shot 105gn t7/285& 290tmz's in the 1750fps range,im always accuracy over speed. in cf i have seen some rifles like lower book charges,some in the middle & have worked some over the top recommened manual max's,just give em whats accurate-safely
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Post by deadon on Feb 11, 2011 19:03:10 GMT -5
rusty, im thinking your t7/260should be in the 1700-1900fps range. i shot 105gn t7/285& 290tmz's in the 1750fps range,im always accuracy over speed. in cf i have seen some rifles like lower book charges,some in the middle & have worked some over the top recommened manual max's,just give em whats accurate-safely Deadeye, would you or someone else tell me what velocity 4198 pushes the 195 gr barnes using 54 to 60 grs . I get good accuracy using 56 grs. Thank you, Rusty |
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