The deer vs the riffle/hunter

[ozark]

250/3000 Savage, .256 Newton, 30-30, 30-06, .270, 25.06, 22-250, .243,. I may have missed a couple but that a good sampling of rifles I have taken deer with. Not meaning to boast but most of my shots have baen just back of the shoulder in the heart lung area, None of these rifles have disappointed me and in fact most deer shot with them reacted the same way. Some dropped DRT. Most made a short dying run that I would call total panic. I have had them bounce of trees trash through brush piles and to the best of my judgment they had no clue as to what they were doing. Just instinctive fleeing in panic. Normally, they kick high with their back legs and seem to run as if the back legs are overpowering the front. A couple of times I have had them simply plow into the river never wading or swimming at all. There has been exceptions but as a rule this is what has happened with me. Ben

[whyohe]

you and i both know you can drop a deer pretty easy with the right shot with any caliber. ;D. i got one this year with my savage ML and one with my 44 mag lever action this year. I have made poor shots on deer with my 44mag years back that i had to track for a long way. I hit her pertty far back. I have also got deer with patch and RB in my flinter. deer are hearty and can take alot at times but they really are not hard to kill either.

[smokepole50]

Shot placement is everything. If it were not so then bows would not be so effective. I have double lunged a doe that went into a mad 25 yard circle dash only to flop over and be completely dead when she hit the ground. I have never since seen a deer die so fast. Bleed then out fast from the lungs and your tracking will be a short and pleasent experience. People talk about heart shots but they can run a long ways in the 15-30 seconds it takes for the brain to be slowly deprived of oxygen by a poorly beating heart with a hole in it. Slice or blow a hole in both lungs and no blood will ever reach the brain and in 10-15 seconds they are not even kicking. And yes this can be done with a lot of calibers at close range, just pretend your shooting a bow and you'll get two holes every time.

Smokepole50

[ozark]

I learned from my own lung problems that the lungs purpose is to supply ozygen to the blood. Bloow without that ozygen is useless. Deny oxygen to the blood and the heart overworks attempting to get the blood to all the needed places. It soon just beats itself to death overworking. I attempt to get both lungs with my shot. It still doesn't explain the panic death runs and the Bang flops drt.

[smokepole50]

I think the Bang Flops, DRT are shots that shock the spine like a high shoulder blade shot or hitting a rib going in behind the shoulder but a bit high splintering bone and bullet into the bottom of the back bone. It temporarily stocks the spine and the animal falls and by the time they are starting to get over the spine issues they run out of blood to the brain.....DRT.

[cfvickers]

Ozark, Now we are in 100% agreement. I always have tried for a forward rib cage shot, it is invariably a kill shot. Sometimes they run, sometimes they drop, ALWAYS they die as quickly and as humanely as you could ask for. I know dozens of people who swear by neck shots, but probably 95% of the deer I have helped to track and not found have been shot in the neck. My mother shot a deer in the neck and we never found it. She killed the deer 2 months later with a scab on both sides of his neck. I hate crippling deer, I have done it but felt aweful every time.

[Rifleman]

I have killed maybe 80 or 90 deer in my life. I have used shotgun, handgun, rifle and muzzle loader. Probably over 50 of these were with handgun. I have tried lots of different shots on deer. Frontal, side, high shoulder, heart, dbl lung, head. Quartering away, and quartering to. Running and standing. I am not a guy that waits around for a text book shot. If I get a good shot I shoot. With all that said. I am more and more convinced that there are 3 shots that kill quick. A brain shot always dumps deer on the spot, but this shot requires a calm shooter, an ability to read the body langauge of the animal, and can easily be screwed up. Not recommended to any but the good shot who is a cold blooded meat killer. The quartering shot away or to is a vry quick killer if done right and the bullet goes all they way through, you often blow out one lung, damage the second, and catch the liver, this deer nevers goes far. But day in day out a double center lung shot is money. Deer seldom travel more then 20 yard before the huge blood trail begins and even a novice will recover the deer. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. If I had my way, I would herd the little goats into a cattle shoot and hit them in the head with a sledge hammer and be done with it.

[ozark]

Rifleman, I agree with you but have some questions that apply to you and a few others but not all by any means. If I am a guide telling hunters to take that shot, wait for a better shot, etc. I would not coach you in the same manner I would the average ordinary shooter. I would expect you to hit where you aimed and aim at the kill zone regardless of the animals presentation. For you, taking head shots, odd angle shots isn't a great risk. For most is would be foolish. People with your experience and training don't press the trigger until the sights are correctly alligned. The average presses the trigger when the sights get on the deer somewhere. My son is a good marksman and he and I have long had a thing going that tells the other where the animal is hit before we get to it. Believe it or not we call the spot within inches. The neck shot is great if the shooter can determine where the spinal column is and then hit that spot. Like you, I will take a less than perfect angle shot and expect success. But, I can't advise it for the whole hunter group. I am satisfied that there are many members that can shoot as well or better than you and I. They know who they are and can take pride in their ability. Ben

[Rifleman]

KInda like drivin a car Ben. I have a friend who is along time state trooper. I am perfectly comfortable riding with him at high speed. But I would not be comfortable with most doing this. The Good Lord sees fit to makes us all different and if we would just recognize that life would be simpler I think.

[10ga]

For me it is several DRT shots. From a tree stand at close range I like the "between the shoulder blades" shot if deer is straight on or straight away, I aim for the heart straight through the spine, even a bit off and DRT. Of course the "high shoulder" shot, it's my favorite with my 58 hawken roundball gun. With the .50 ML shooting bullets my favorite DRT shot is the "texas heart shot", I have done it often times and other than that bullet ruins the slapdaddys it's DRT and I have recovered more bullets from that shot then any other, most in the front of the neck near the head, oh yeah, that shot also produces a mess inside and you need to field dress ASAP, contrary to what most people think I have never hit or ruined a hind quarter with that shot. And the regular, for here in Eastern VA with hound hunting is... Well my handloads of 20 #0 buck in a 3&1/2" #10 gauge in either of my automatics. At 45 yds or less, shooting the F choke, if I do my part it's DRT with every slap of the trigger. OH YEAH, and a pack of 8 15" beagles at full cry coming hard! I love huntin! I like to eat them bean eaters and milksuckers too. Winds dying out tonight so I'm huntin tomorrow! Best to all, 10 ga

Wind didn't die out and I'm at home waiting better conditions. Due to be better Fri. 12/10&11. So I'm at home making chili, baking bread, putting up tree, ornaments, lights and decorations and cutting into the honeydoo list. Somebody will be happy! 10

[youp50]

I have dumped several bucks where they stand. Two come to mind that were spine hits and a 22 mag will do that. The ones through the lungs were always a fast 3000fps and rapid expanding SST or Nosler tipped interloc type of a bullet. Use any less expanding bullet, most of the premiums fall in this class, they all go some distance.

My oldest Grandson killed a buck this year. I explained to him the 308 usually results in some trailing if the spine is not hit. He hit the buck through the shoulder and it folded right there. I think that was done to reinforce the fact that every deer can react differently to the same shot shot placement.

[pposey]

Depends on the bullet and speed combo on all cals,,, I started handloading 308 winchesters for my uncles H&R rifle a couple years ago,,, he has probably killed 12 deer since then and all that I know of have been 1 shot kills with less than 50 yards of running and several have gone less than 10. One this year was shot through the ribs right behind the shoulders in and out, deer simply sat back on it's hanches and fell over,, 150 balistic tip pushed by a full load of varget, lungs simply were mush. Biggest deer he ever killed was last year and it was another lung shot buck that walked /stumbled 10 yards and died

[pposey]

10ga,,,,

I miss hunting with hounds and beagles,, thats some serious fun. I always used either a 12ga 3 inch 00Buck mag for really thick areas and my 270 for open areas