It couldn't happen to me!

[jray57]

At least not in the middle of hunting season. I was getting prepared to spend some time in the woods this long weekend with my son for the final few days of general firearms season. He took his 14 Classic .308 and I carried a gun I recently put together with a model12 single shot action sporting a Shilen select match chambered in 6XC and off we went to the range for a few final just to make sure shots. I threw the 10ML in there just to see if the load I had been working on would hold up out to 200yds. Every thing was going real well until I took the first shot out of the 10ML. Without thinking (duh)I loaded a charge on top of the one that was in the gun from when I took it hunting last week. When the gun went off I thought (too late to start now) that sure did kick more than usual and the shot hit lower on the 200 yd target than it should have. It still didn't hit home until I rammed the next 300 gr .458 Hornady home and the last inch or two before it hit home it was like my ram-rod broke. I try real hard not to give way to temper tantrums, but today tested my resolve! I read the posts lately about others who had done the same thing and I just thought I would post this and hope that maybe if someone else might learn something from my stupid mistake then all might not be lost. You can bet that when I get another barrel I will DEFINITELY have a witness mark on my ram-rod. And be especially careful when it is hunting season and am prone to leaving the gun loaded. You know I had really been thinking lately about taking the PacNor plunge- just not this way! Well it's off to the classifieds to look for a .50 replacement barrel. It sure would be nice to think I could salvage that week I have off between Xmas and new years- the last week of late ML season. Here's hoping I am the last one to do this

[bloodtrailer]

I cut my ram rod w/ the spin jag flush with the barrel, and If any doubt I check (if loaded or not)by putting it in the barrel(if flush unloaded) if it sticks out at all remove breach plug and PUSH IT OUT! If at any time I get distracted at the range or when I open my gun case first thing I do is the rod check, memories can fail but the rod is always right!

[killahog]

Jray Im am sorry to hear about you barrel but I bet that sort of thing happends to more people on here than what we are hearing about. The good news is your season can still be saved I happend to have a new Pac Nor 45 and a Factory 50 take off just sitting around if you need either one send me a PM.

[whyohe]

the improrant thing is you where not hurt(excep may be pride). I shoot the load out if i know im not going to hunt for a while. wont double load and insurance that load will go off.

[chuck41]

Been there, done that, and bought the "T" shirt. Still have the barrel as a reminder. A ramrod with proper witness mark is an absolutely, absolutely, absolutely indispensable necessity at the range or in the field.

[pposey]

Glad your OK,,, and welcome to the club,, just be glad it wasn't a pacnor

[boarhog]

Jray!
At least you are way ahead of me on your learning curve! It took me bulging 2 barrels for the lesson to soak in deep enough. I now find myself checking with the ramrod witness mark at the slightest distraction. I also used a bright yellow paint pen to make the mark more visible. Others suggested red electricians tape, and it would work, but it wouldn't slide through the bore guide I keep on my Mac's Rod, and my Tipton range rod.
Boarhog

[jray57]

Nov 24, 2010 23:15:23 GMT -5 pposey said:

Glad your OK,,, and welcome to the club,, just be glad it wasn't a pacnor

Now that almost makes me feel better-somehow.

[pposey]

;^)

[paulslund]

Hmmm...I'm just wondering something.

Please that have bulged their barrels with a double load...was it a complete double load, or just a double loaded bullet (although I imagine it would depend on the circumstances the double-loading occured).

The reason I'm asking is this: In the Randy Wakeman article where he reviews the blown barrel issue he was able to examine and discuss with the owner (the Canadian, I believe) of a confirmed blown barrel and discovered that in fact it was a full double load: Primer-powder-sabot-bullet-powder-sabot-bullet -KAPOW!.

Randy discovered that the pressure created in this situation exceeds 300,000.lbs/inch whereas a single load is approx. 35,000 to 40,000 lbs/inch.

I thought I read that Savage had tested their barrels to 120,000 lbs/inch (not sure if that's official or not).

I'm guess I'm asking, or maybe saying, is that those that have bulged their barrels using a full double load are really, really lucky that it didn't blow up (and injure them in the process), or Savage barrels are much, much stronger than we gave them credit for.

Okay...maybe not a question...just an observation.

Paul.

[killahog]

Interesting Question/ Statement or . I guess one could also come to the conclusion that wakemans findings are just a load of crap. From what I have seen there have been far to many double loadings that have occurred without an Injury or a blown barrel to give much credit to wakemans findings.

[mike.dawson]

Witness marks on ram rods

Mike

[jray57]

Mine was double loaded-46 gr 4759, Hornady 300 gr .458 and BCR on top of the same powder,bullet/sabot. Barrel was visibly bulged right under the threaded hole for the rear sight-which was removed and a blind screw in the hole. I don't know if it would have taken much more to rupture the barrel- don't want to find out!

[cuda]

Killahog has a blue barrel for $50.00.

[pposey]

Nov 25, 2010 16:41:31 GMT -5 killahog said:

Interesting Question/ Statement or . I guess one could also come to the conclusion that wakemans findings are just a load of crap. From what I have seen there have been far to many double loadings that have occurred without an Injury or a blown barrel to give much credit to wakemans findings.

hehehehe,,, mine was a full double load in my pacnor 45,

[chuck41]

Nov 25, 2010 20:50:34 GMT -5 pposey said:

Nov 25, 2010 16:41:31 GMT -5 killahog said:

Interesting Question/ Statement or . I guess one could also come to the conclusion that wakemans findings are just a load of crap. From what I have seen there have been far to many double loadings that have occurred without an Injury or a blown barrel to give much credit to wakemans findings.

hehehehe,,, mine was a full double load in my pacnor 45,

Mine too. Two of everything in my Savage 50.

[pposey]

Yaaa Chuck is the one that told me how to do it!

[boarhog]

A complete load stacked on top of a complete load, both times!
BH

[paulslund]

Hmmm I hadn't thought that RW's findings could be crap regarding the pressure created.

Based on the number of full double loads, sounds like the barrels are much stronger than even Savage's testing have determined? (I'm happy to hear that)

Actually, is there any software that could calculate the pressure of a double load like that? I imagine that most software deal with a regular load (likely rifle loads, I guess?). Just curious what software would calculate the pressure to be...

Actually, come to think of it, if no software exists, I wonder how RW calculated it?

Paul

[blackhawk7204]

While the witness mark is a very good and time proven method ( I still use it to be sure my load is seated fully ) I put a short , stiff piece of red electrical wire through the trigger guard of any loaded weapon as an instant warning that it is loaded. I place the wire between the trigger and the guard so even if it wasn't seen or felt ( very unlikely ) you still couldn't fire it.

Call it an extra measure of security against the most dangerous part of any weapon, the loose nut behind the trigger. ;D

[Billy]

While the witness mark is a very good and time proven method ( I still use it to be sure my load is seated fully ) I put a short , stiff piece of red electrical wire through the trigger guard of any loaded weapon as an instant warning that it is loaded. I place the wire between the trigger and the guard so even if it wasn't seen or felt ( very unlikely ) you still couldn't fire it.

Call it an extra measure of security against the most dangerous part of any weapon, the loose nut behind the trigger. ;D

If I leave a ML loaded, I actually stick a note in the barrel that says "LOADED"! Now watch me forget to do that and bulge a barrel ;D

[bigmoose]

Cheap insurance is always have and unloaded gun, but treat it as if it was loaded

[ET]

For checking my bore I use Bloodtrailer’s method of using the ramrod and dropping it into the bore. One season I didn’t discharge my bore and upon returning home left the ramrod in the bore to remind me there was a load still in there. Every time I opened my gun cabinet the protruding ramrod always caught my attention until I addressed this condition.

We are often concerned about a double load and rightly so but how about an unexpected discharge in the home from a muzzle-loader that was stored with the load intact. This is a true incident that occurred a few years back.

One of the fellows (not part of my hunting group) who lives in my hunting partners area finished a hard last day of deer season for muzzle-loaders and just put his muzzle-loader away with the load intact figuring on cleaning it out the next day. It skipped his mind and almost a whole year later he started to get ready for a range trip.

Now keep in mind his regular routine for storing his rifles was to clean them and give the barrel a light coating of oil before storing them for any length of time. For the muzzle-loader each new season he would fire off a primer and swab it to try and ensure any traces of oil were removed before loading. He did this faithfully every year and the next year followed his routine faithfully again. Part of his routine in preparation was firing the primer and swabbing the bore in his basement in readiness before he went to the range.

Just a quick note here he would always point his muzzle-loader across the unoccupied rec-room towards the cavity of the fireplace when firing a primer. Of course I don’t need to describe what happened next. Now when the boys at the local gun club got hold of this story they were merciless with him. They even nominated him for the LYDA award. That being the “Local Yokel Darwin Award”.

Today this past incident is often laughed at by the boys but for me was a lesson learned. When I take my 10ML-II out of the cabinet it always gets the ramrod down the bore check before I do anything to it.

I imagine some of you are probably wondering what happened to the fireplace. Lets just say it was one costly repair and bits of fire brick and glass shards were found for a long time in the rec-room afterwards when walking the floor with just socks on the feet. It took a long time to get that smell out of the basement. As to how the wife reacted to this incident I’ll just say “She Reacted” and let your imagination fill in this one.


Ed

[boarhog]

Not done with a ML, but I have a Nephew( married to my Bride's Niece) that has listened to me preaching gun safety for years. One important lesson repeated plenty is,"Never, never, never put a loaded gun in your vehicle!" Naturally he did just that, and shot a 180 gr 308 bullet into his transmission! Yes, it totaled the trans, to the tune of over $2500.00. Maybe even more than that, but he wasn't allowed to play with us older children for a while, and refused to talk about what it cost in cash, or at home.
Boarhog

[David]

While not practical at the range, to keep my powder charge dry when hunting I always place electrical tape over the muzzle after loading. Temperature changes and damp conditions concern me as I have proven to myself that the sabot does not create a waterproof seal. The electrical tape also serves as a visual reminder and a physical block to a double load. Using a belt and suspenders mentality I always drop in the ram rod before loading. At the breech end I have a special snap cap primer that creates a moisture seal and warns of a powder charge and bullet (do not leave the snap cap on an empty gun). As an engineer from India I used to work with always said – ‘we need to be doubly sure’

[chuck41]

Had a guy at deer camp this year that did not hunt last year because of health problems. Came down this year and took out his BP muzzleloader. Loaded it up and went to his stand. Shot at a deer and the thing kicked so hard it left a big scope cut over his eye that bled like crazy.

He had double loaded it and the first load was in the rifle two years and yet it still fired. He didn't unload it and clean it two years ago and didn't check with his rod this time. He has a really nice scar there now. The Pyrodex he used did not seem to damage the rifle, but it sure made it kick like crazy.

[pposey]

If I had not been using the lead sled mine would have kicked my butt,,,,,