Looking for .40 Loads

[edge]

I probably won't shoot this weekend with my new Marlin conversion but am looking for any loads not listed in the loads forum.

Right now I am looking at loads for either 180 or 200 grain XTP's.

QL estimates for the 200 XTP:

55 grains 10X 2688 fps @ 42 kpsi

60 grains H322 2700 fps @ 42kpsi

70 3031 2849 fps @ 41kpsi

70 4895 2716 fps @ 39kpsi

Since these are estimates I am wondering if anyone has shot these powders in this range of weight powders and what were your results.

This is probably the order in which I'd like to try them as I like to kick a sabotless load to ensure sealing.

edge.

[jims]

I have only shot mine with the suggested loads so I cannot offer any assistance. I hate that because you have helped me out many times. Good shooting.

[chuck41]

Nov 19, 2010 13:55:28 GMT -5 edge said:

I probably won't shoot this weekend with my new Marlin conversion but am looking for any loads not listed in the loads forum.

Right now I am looking at loads for either 180 or 200 grain XTP's.

QL estimates for the 200 XTP:

55 grains 10X 2688 fps @ 42 kpsi

60 grains H322 2700 fps @ 42kpsi

70 3031 2849 fps @ 41kpsi

70 4895 2716 fps @ 39kpsi

Since these are estimates I am wondering if anyone has shot these powders in this range of weight powders and what were your results.

This is probably the order in which I'd like to try them as I like to kick a sabotless load to ensure sealing.

edge.

I have only used the H322 of your list and about 10% less powder than you indicated. Worked well on a couple deer with XTP 200gr. That load is actually in the loads forum. Don't have velocity info with me here but I think it was in the 2400-2500 range. I didn't like the looks of spent primers with that load. Looked like higher pressure than my other loads to me and the Varget worked so well I went to that instead of the H322.

SW would possibly be a great source for info on some of these and a couple others as well. I wanted to use 3031 I have on hand but never got a "Round Tuit". Will be watching your results with much interest.

[sw]

Edge,
You already have my load.

[ewc]

Edge-

With a 200 gr SST:

54 grains of H-322 = 2,469
68 gr H-4895 = 2,586
69 gr Varget = 2,605

I never tried, but for a single powder, I'd bet you could get Varget to 80g and 2,800? (guessing)

[edge]

Unfortunately QL does not have a lot of cartridges to choose from in .40 cal that I can compare accurately to my synthetic cartridges in a ML.
There are a few straight taper cases like the .40-82 Win and the .40-70 and 90 What a Cheer that I can use as a test.

If I use the 54 grains of H322 in the .40-82 Win case, then QL would estimate 2484 fps @ 32.6Kpsi.

If I plug your velocity into Powley, it would estimate 39Kpsi with the following Powley caveat:

A comparison was made between pressures calculated by this method, and pressures measured for the same loads as recorded in the DuPont handloader's guide for Smokeless Powders (1975-1976). The results indicated that the calculated pressure for cartridges from about .25-caliber to .338-caliber were usually within about 10% of the measured pressures, about equally divided above and below. For the smaller calibers, the calculated pressures were typically somewhat below the measured pressures, the average being about 4% lower for the 6mm/.243 calibers, and about 8% for the .22 calibers. For calibers larger than the .338, the calculated pressures were typically somewhat higher than the measured pressures, the average being about 7% higher for the .35-caliber cartridges, and about 15% higher for the .458 Winchester Magnum. The .375 H&H Magnum, is the exception to the trend, gave calculated pressures in very good agreement with the measured pressures.


Thanks for the loads and velocities.

edge.

[sw]

The load I suggested to Edge was my load of 12g VV-110 under 64g Varget with a 200SST, Wonder Wad, and CCIm. Bullets were knurled from 0.400" to 0.4015". Shoots 2880'/sec, quite accurate and velocity stays very close with extreme temp changes.

[jims]

Although it is a book load my .40 has shot well with 12 grains of 4759, and then 78 grains of 4350. I use one cotton type wad, I do not have them at home now to tell you the type. The speed as I recall is around 2800 fps.
I only had a neck shot at 153 yards, an open area about the size of a playing card, last year and an easy shot to make with that combination. I forgot to say the bullet was a knurled 200 SST. This is the PacNor RB barrel in stainless.

[ewc]

Nov 22, 2010 22:15:07 GMT -5 sw said:

The load I suggested to Edge was my load of 12g VV-110 under 64g Varget with a 200SST, Wonder Wad, and CCIm. Bullets were knurled from 0.400" to 0.4015". Shoots 2880'/sec, quite accurate and velocity stays very close with extreme temp changes.

This was my load this year too. Blatantly copied from sw

My speed is faster though (2,881 avg) ;D

[sw]

Thoughts on 40 cal loads. I started with 10-12 g VV-110 or 4759 under 75-80g of H-4350. Velocities were in the 2900-3000'/sec with 200XTP/SST. Fairly accurate but turned out to be fairly temp sensitive. Think:85-92g and 2900-3000'/sec. Low pressure was likely the problem. Chuck41 suggested the VV-110/Varget combination. His load is a little gentler than mine: actually quite a bit. The 12/64 load with 2880'/sec with only 76gs certainly has more pressure than my original load as well as significantly lower es and less temp sensitivity.
I think I believe more in RB's baby, duplex, than even he did. We discussed this at length many times. I believe in the initial hard boost to get max pressure as quickly as possible for obturation purposes. I think this is even more impt with sabotless. He felt there were advantages to using pressures in the mid 40sto low 50s but certainly understood and appreciated Savage's book pressures and loads. They are safe,accurate, and temp insensitive. Why? Because they are operating in the powder's design pressures. As we go to slower powders, we are going to powders that are normally used in higher pressure applications; therefore, going to higher pressure loads just makes sense. The strength of the smokeless MLer design is certainly up to such loadings. RB did make a BP that appears to be extremely robust. My 4 RB PacNor barrels all have these plugs. I think the Sav BPs are very strong and safe.
So my duplex loads will likely have a harder initial kick than the traditional duplex load, especially sabotless loads.
The 12/64 VV-110/Varget load with 200SST/WW/CCIm is hard to beat, IF 2880'/sec is a desirable speed for the shooter.

[chuck41]

My go-to load is using 7 gr of 4759 as a booster under 63gr of Varget. A total of 70gr that gives a velocity of about 2750 with a 200gr knurled .400" XTP over a fiber wad. As SW mentioned this is definitely not nearly a max load, but it is about the max I care to use on deer with an XTP. They danged near vaporize on impact at that speed and my shots are almost always under 100yds so impact is not much less than muzzle velocity. In my sabotless 40 the 4759/Varget duplex is very accurate, more so I believe than a straight single powder Varget load. I bought some H-4350 to try SW's magic 2900 - 3000fps loads, but don't really have a good use for them other than just for fun punching holes in paper. Might make one heck of a yote load though!

I have compared the results of deer hit with this load to other deer shot in the local club using 30-30, 270, 3006, and 7mm Mag. There is much more internal trauma in lung shots with a 2700fps 200gr XTP than any of the others. True, it doesn't normally exit the body on the far side like they all normally do, but there is nothing left but soup in the lung cavity. Pieces of the copper jacket usually end up in the skin on the far side. Every ft/lb of energy is expended inside the body cavity. Entry hole is as large as the exit holes with others and blood trail is comparable, often spectacular. It is definitely messier cleaning a deer hit by one of these things.

[pposey]

Mr. Chuck have you tried the 195 barnes? or will the all copper not do well sabotless?