Swinglock performance

[hntrrake]

I've been following along with the post regarding the swinglock adjustable die ever since it was began but I wanted to wait until I received my die and was able to work up some loads before I posted anything about it. I ordered my full form adjustable die a couple of weeks ago for my swinglock and Tom still had a drop left from my barrel when he made my gun so he was able to complete the work on the die without me having to send my gun back in to him. When I received my die he included an extra drop from my gun which is about 1" long and works perfectly to test each bullet I size to ensure proper fit even though it is not needed. I ordered a box of 50 .458 Barnes all copper SOCOM bullets and as of right now those are the only bullets I've tested. My initial 3 shot group with the max recommended load yielded an average velocity of 2,962 fps and grouped right around .75". This load I ensure would have easily killed anything in North America that was in front of the barrel and would mame anything behind the butt pad. After talking with Tom I lowered my charge down to 76grs of H4198 and a 3 shot string averaged 2,801 fps and the recoil was a lot more manageable. I have attached a picture of a 5 shot 100 yard group that I fired using this load that measures slightly under .5". I have also shot this load at 200 yards and was able to maintain my groups right at the 1" mark but unfortunately I did not have my phone with me to take a pic, I will capture better photos and post them during my next shooting session. Prior to using this die my loading procedures were powder, vegetable wad, fiber wad, then bullet. The current procedure is powder then bullet with nothing in between and loading is a breeze I could seat the bullet by using only 1 finger on the ramrod to push the bullet down the barrel. I do swap the barrel with 1 "slightly" oiled patch then a dry patch between shots just to maintain consistency but it probably is not needed, it's just something I've always done since my black powder days, even with my savage. I know that I am probably missing something that I was meaning to say but it has been a long day and I keep drifting off. If anyone wants anymore info feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer. Hopefully I will have some performance pics of game after this weekend since it is our opening weekend here in Central Texas.
Tim

[Deleted]

That is some great results....A 300gn bullet traveling over 2900fps . Yours is truly a BIG GAME RIFLE.....One question?..How much are you sizing down the .458 bullets?
Thanks Zen

[hntrrake]

I do not currently have a set of calibers therfore I am not sure what the final dimesions are. The bullet is full size and the rifling is already engraved onto the bullet when it comes out of the die because a small 1 inch piece of my barrel drop is made directly into my die. I will tell you that I am able to size the .458 SOCOM bullet using my rockchucker press with only slight effort. But when I try to resize the .458 Barnes 300 gr triple shocks I am unable to get them through my die without first annealing them to soften them up. I have resized several of the TSX's after annealing but have yet to shoot any.

[killitgrillit]

keep us posted on results, I'am having my DD45 made now including a lapped drop to have one of these dies made and I'am hoping to achieve the same results.
Since the bullets load so easily do you think there will be any chance of the bullet coming unseated if the muzzle is carried in the down position??

[hntrrake]

They don't fall down the barrel when inserted you still physically have to push them down even though it only takes slight presuure and they obviously spin the entire way down because of how they engage the rifling. I have no concerns about the bullet coming unseated unless you physically tapped the barrel on something while it was in the down position and even then I really doubt it would come unseated.

[Deleted]

Nov 4, 2010 20:52:33 GMT -5 hntrrake said:

I do not currently have a set of calibers therfore I am not sure what the final dimesions are. The bullet is full size and the rifling is already engraved onto the bullet when it comes out of the die because a small 1 inch piece of my barrel drop is made directly into my die. I will tell you that I am able to size the .458 SOCOM bullet using my rockchucker press with only slight effort. But when I try to resize the .458 Barnes 300 gr triple shocks I am unable to get them through my die without first annealing them to soften them up. I have resized several of the TSX's after annealing but have yet to shoot any.

Have you tried the .458 Barnes Original? In the Savage they've proved to be tough and accurate. They might be a little easier to re-size than the solid coppers.
Zen

[Dave W]

Great shooting and thanks for the report.

[tar12]

I was a little "curious" about that myself Zen! They should give outstanding results. Tim I will send you some to try out if you are so inclined.

[hntrrake]

I have not tried the BO's yet but some time in the future I probably will. Starting tomorrow I start my leave and plan on hunting for the next 9 days. If I find time I will try to shoot a group or two using the BO's. I really doubt that I would change from what I am currently using though.

Tar12- I greatly appreciate the offer but there is no need to send any as I have a few laying around the workbench someplace.

[moto357]

this post is better than any "ad" for that sizer.. now i want one!

good shooting btw, good luck on your upcomming hunt

[edge]

What does your rifle weigh, and since you will be shooting sabotless have you considered adding a brake?

edge.

PS I forgot to ask what twist is the barrel?

edge.

[bigmoose]

Good luck on your coming hunt, did you mention what you are hunting, what ever it is you are ready.
You difinitey have a big game rifle.
I think you will find on Large animals {1000lbs plus] the Barnes cooper bullets will out proform the BO by a wide margin.
Again have a great hunt.
Marty

[hntrrake]

Edge- Even though I have never weighed my gun I would suspect that it is right around 12 lbs. If I get a chance when I get home tonight I will dig my digital fish scale out of the boat and get an exact weight. A muzzle brake is one of the options that Tom offers to his customers and I put some thought into at the time when I ordered mine but decided against it. After shooting the 300 grain bullets it is something I might reengage Tom about after the hunting season. I will be deploying again in the spring and that would be a good time to ship the rifle back as I wouldn't need it anytime soon.

Bigmoose- We primarily hunt whitetails where I live in Central Texas a large mature buck will only field dress at 150 lbs or less in my area but that same buck could possibly have 170" or more of horn on his head. The average score is around 130 to 140" though. We also have no shortage of hogs which on he top end can go 400 to 500 lbs but average probably 100 to 150 lbs. We also have almost every exotic species of animal that you can imagine here in texas and there is no closed season on them, the only limiting factor is how deep your wallet is. I do plan on taking a bison for meat this winter with the swinglock and I will be sure to post the results of the Barnes.

[hntrrake]

One question I do have and maybe someone on this board may be able to enlighten me as to why it happened, is that as you can see in the picture above I sighted my rifle in approximately 2.75" high at 100 yards, and according to the ballistic calculator that I used it should of been zeroed for 200 yards. However when I fired my first group at 200 yards using all the same components and not changing my shooting style I was almost 3" high at 200 yards. I was just wondering why such a large discrepancies between the ballistic calculator and real world results.

[Harley]

Now it seems that everything else is only second best. Maybe the Pac-Nor with a Swing-Lock full form die will prove out, also, though. For me, it's back to testing the Swing-Lock smooth die in my .45 Pac-Nor.

Harley

[GMB54-120]

I use the M/LE version of the Barnes SOCOMs which are supposed to expand faster than the tipped TSX version.

Love those SOCOMS in my 54cal and a max charge of BH209. It would be nice if i could get them to shoot this well in my Savage even at reduced velocity.


The Swinglock reviews are very interesting also but i also wish they would still offer the older .450 die that was not adjustable. I only need a .450 die to complete my set of .45x standard press thread dies.

Anyone with an older Lee or Swinglock .450 die want to get rid of theirs?

[edge]

Nov 5, 2010 8:47:23 GMT -5 hntrrake said:

One question I do have and maybe someone on this board may be able to enlighten me as to why it happened, is that as you can see in the picture above I sighted my rifle in approximately 2.75" high at 100 yards, and according to the ballistic calculator that I used it should of been zeroed for 200 yards. However when I fired my first group at 200 yards using all the same components and not changing my shooting style I was almost 3" high at 200 yards. I was just wondering why such a large discrepancies between the ballistic calculator and real world results.

IMO, there are many variables including sighting and atmospheric conditions that come into play.
If that target dot is exactly 1 inch then I find your group center to be 2.779 inches high, Barnes claims a BC of 0.236 presumably using std pressure and temperature.
Depending on actual scope above centerline but guessing 1.75 inches I would get that the bullet should be 1.3 inches high at 200 yards.
Shooting at the same size target dot at the same magnification would certainly add some error into this.

You may want to shoot a few more distances and work up an accurate drop chart....then go into Excel and fill in the blanks with curve analysis.

edge.

I am guesstimating your taget based off of a computer so measuring may not be exact

[bloodtrailer]

This may be bad form, but what is the cost compared to the savage?

[Deleted]

BOUT 2500.00 MORE OR LESS, but these are truely a work of art and not to mention they shoot VERY well. my friend tested the new 325 parkers this week and shot a 2" 400 yd group with 2 shots touching.yes Tom does very good work.....Bill

[Deleted]

gmb54120... wrote:
The Swinglock reviews are very interesting also but i also wish they would still offer the older .450 die that was not adjustable. I only need a .450 die to complete my set of .45x standard press thread dies.

The last time I talked to Tom he said they still offered the older style die.
Zen

[dave d.]

:)h that is a awsome group and can't wait to see some long range stuff. Tom sure does make a goodlooking accurate rifle.

[GMB54-120]

Panhandle

I sent him an email just before the SwingLock thread started and he implied he only offered the adjustable die now.

He showed me pic of the new die and talked about its benefits but never mentioned the old die other than the website hadn't been updated?

[boarhog]

I wonder if The Bride will let me mortgage the house so I can order a Swinglock??? Probably not!
BH

[Deleted]

SOME DAY IF I GET OLD AND GRAY AND TOM OR YOURS TRUELY DONT DIE FIRST..........MAYBE


well now that I think about it Im already old. maybe if I live long enough

[Jon]

Guys. If you have looked at the Swing lock sight you will see some really fine weapons at what I consider a great price. I'm in the middle of building one and It is going to cost me way more and not be near as easy on the eye. But then I'm just trying to find something to do since I'm very limited. But it is something to keep me busy. And just as a add on Tom Post is probably one of the most helpful people I've found that specializes in custom m/z. I'm not trying to take anything away from all the great and helpful people on the board.
Jon

[Deleted]

when you see one in person they really are not a bad buy. I have 2/3s of that in my savage pacnor and its not nearly as sexy but it sure is a shooter

[Richard]

No doubt, Richard is impressed!

Now with that said..................Let me ask........How many of you on this forum are actively shooting or stalking critters beyond say 200 to 300 yards? Truthfully? We now have the Pac-Nor conversions for Savages and Remington's which will easily give us 300 yard capability if we work up a decent load. And, at a price most can afford. So, while these pieces of work that Tom produces are nice, I deem them more of the "I wanna" rather than an "I needa ?" There again, if your pockets are deep and your not taking the food out of your children's mouths? Then go for it!
I personally could not justify that kind of money for a hunting rifle? It it was for competition?>>>>>>> Definitely!
Fortunately, we live in the Good Old US of A and are free to make these decisions on what we buy or what is important to us.
Richard

[lwh723]

Nov 5, 2010 20:06:06 GMT -5 Richard said:

"I wanna" rather than an "I needa ?"

So kind of the same situation as your desire to triplex.

Nice gun. Very nice shooting.

[tar12]

Nov 5, 2010 15:09:07 GMT -5 boarhog said:

I wonder if The Bride will let me mortgage the house so I can order a Swinglock??? Probably not!
BH

Your new home may oddly enough resemble a dog house my friend! ;D

[Harley]

Well, Richard, It takes me a nanosecond to convert "I want" to "I need"; after that, I can't tell the difference.

Harley