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Post by pposey on Oct 8, 2010 7:52:05 GMT -5
How come no one has a sporter weight pacnor?  ? I mean it's not like we are getting into firefights with these things and need the heavy barrels to soak up heat,, I know the barrel would heat up faster, but could cool faster as well, heck I might go all the way up to 22 inches ;D if I can get a sporter,,, say full size for 6 inches, then a sporter taper from there on out,,,,, |
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Post by dans on Oct 8, 2010 8:25:37 GMT -5
My NULA has a light contour barrel and is .75 outside diameter at the muzzle. Did I mention its a 50? So they can be made. My NULA heats up about like my Savages. I just use a cool rod and treat it like a Savage. Don't know what the barrel weighs but the entire rifle scoped with a Leupold VX-lll ready to hunt weighs 6 pounds 10 ounces.
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Post by sw on Oct 8, 2010 8:29:42 GMT -5
:)I've been tempted to use my light NEF frame and make a 22" 40 or 45 with a sporter type taper and a Weaver K-4. Could still get all the velocity wanted but 2500-2600 would be ok with me, 3000 possible even with this combo. I thought with this appx 5# combo, that the 175g Barnes shooting 2500'/sec would still be adequate to over 200 yds and have relatively little recoil.
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Post by edge on Oct 8, 2010 9:02:34 GMT -5
As long as you know where your pressure is in the barrel it would probably be fine. For fast burning powder it may not matter, but heavy loads of slower burning powder also may have a relatively high pressure in a section that should be thicker!
edge.
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Post by pposey on Oct 8, 2010 9:06:50 GMT -5
As long as you know where your pressure is in the barrel it would probably be fine. For fast burning powder it may not matter, but heavy loads of slower burning powder also may have a relatively high pressure in a section that should be thicker! edge. would the pressures be greater than in a big boomer .458 cal cartridge gun? How light would you recomend one to go as far as taper? |
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Post by rjhans53 on Oct 8, 2010 9:18:34 GMT -5
My KP1 smi conversion is a standard every day 45-70 barrel. It handles 55 of 4198 behind a 200 xtp just fine so I see no reason it couldn't be done, Might not be wise on a sabotless situation, I don't do that so I have no clue
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Post by edge on Oct 8, 2010 9:32:22 GMT -5
would the pressures be greater than in a big boomer .458 cal cartridge gun? How light would you recomend one to go as far as taper? With a cartridge you know that almost all of the high pressure occurs in the first few inches or so past the end of the cartridge. In say a 458 win mag that is probably within 6 inches of the boltface. QL predicts that a 75 grain load of H4198 under a 300 grain bullet should have the pressure just below 30Kpsi after 5 inches of bullet travel...so about 7 1/2 inches from the boltface. If I go to Krieger I see that they recommend a minimum contour of a #6, which is a heavy bull sporter. The #6 is 1.00 in diameter 6 inches from the breech end of the blank. Add 2 inches for the breechplug and it would probably be fine....or just use lighter loads since you aren't making a beanfield gun....But keep in mind what Krieger suggests  IMO, a sporter contour will look funny in a Savage ML stock .... edge. |
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Post by pposey on Oct 8, 2010 10:33:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the info!!!
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Post by boarhog on Oct 8, 2010 18:24:19 GMT -5
I have wondered why a lighter weight, sporter type taper wouldn't work well for Savage 45
BH
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Post by spoonover on Oct 8, 2010 19:30:14 GMT -5
Dans, need help been trying to hold on to my 6.5 pound Remington smokeless.50 cal? First shoot had blood running down my face. Lead sled is the only way I can work up loads, only load that is working is 300 grain Rem and 67 grains H4198? Can you give me some loads you have tried, I am tired of my a$$ getting beat? Thanks Rick
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 8, 2010 19:47:54 GMT -5
Dans, need help been trying to hold on to my 6.5 pound Remington smokeless.50 cal? First shoot had blood running down my face. Lead sled is the only way I can work up loads, only load that is working is 300 grain Rem and 67 grains H4198? Can you give me some loads you have tried, I am tired of my a$$ getting beat? Thanks Rick Wow, would think you'd want to try a more conventional book load like some 5744 with 250gr bullets. Obviously, you're not going to get to a real high velocity, but I hope you didn't build a 6.5# gun with the intention of using it as a beanfield rifle.  I think I literally separated my shoulder shooting that load (and some slug gun work) before I switched to 45 in my full size 10MLII. |
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Post by spoonover on Oct 8, 2010 20:04:01 GMT -5
Beanfeild no but all loads I have been trying is blowing the sabots up, but the BCR with the 300 Rem and they are shooting 1" groups. I must be using (BP sabots) the wrong sabots?
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Post by pposey on Oct 8, 2010 21:47:37 GMT -5
have you tried book savage loads? 40-44 grains 4759 pushing either a 250 or 300 bullet
sounds like you need a longer eye relief scope as well,,,,,,
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 8, 2010 22:17:44 GMT -5
Beanfeild no but all loads I have been trying is blowing the sabots up, but the BCR with the 300 Rem and they are shooting 1" groups. I must be using (BP sabots) the wrong sabots? What loads have you tried? Powder, bullet, sabot? |
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Post by dans on Oct 8, 2010 22:55:34 GMT -5
spoonover, the recommended load(s) from the maker are 39 grains of VVN-110 with the 250 grain Parker ballistic extreme and 38 grains of VVN-110 with the 275 grain ballistic extreme. There are many ways to decrease recoil however the simplest is to decrease bullet weight. I have not shot anything but 250 grain Hornady XTPs in my rifle. I am slowly increasing the powder charge into the low 40s. I am using both VVN-110 and IMR-4759. This rifle at its light weight has the ability to kick my a__ into the dirt. I am finding that the choice of sabot is key to getting good groups. I refuse to shoot any load that can/will hurt me. I just can't shoot them accurately. My suggestion is to go to a lighter bullet and use some of the savage book loads. They are very effective on deer and by substituting a Barnes bullet will take elk size game as well. Over on the Modern Muzzleloader board there are numerous loads that work in the NULA listed. I am still working with my rifle and will post results when finished. I use a benchmaster rest with a 25 pound bag of shot on it and recoil is not an issue with the above loads.
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Post by spoonover on Oct 9, 2010 7:49:29 GMT -5
Have ran out of SR4759 and IMR4227 trying (blowing sabots) the different loads. Have some 322, and h4198 on hand. Have to go to work now. Dig out some components and find out what I am doing wrong when I get home tonight.
The savage 10 ML is not this picky, it is a shooter with the MMP 250SST duplex h322 and 4759. Did not care for the bullet, to thin.
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Post by pposey on Oct 9, 2010 22:13:54 GMT -5
Without the right sabots you are DRT,,, dead right there. Start slow and work up.. have you tried 40 grains 4759 and a 250 XTP
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Post by rbinar on Oct 9, 2010 22:24:28 GMT -5
would the pressures be greater than in a big boomer .458 cal cartridge gun? How light would you recomend one to go as far as taper? Yes and no. The pressure should be higher than older 45-70s which were very restricted about the same or a little less than a Marlin 450, and considerably less than a 458 Win. Mag. The person best to answer the second question is your barrel maker, but he would need to know about the maximum pressure any load would make. |
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Post by spoonover on Oct 10, 2010 7:28:00 GMT -5
Spit-Fire TMZ 250 gr., was a no go to tight for the bore, sabots came apart but was finding parts of them on the asphalt with 42 gr 4759 same load with the Traditions 250 gr. smackdown SST's fit bore nicely and when fired sabots were never found? Same was true with the IMR 4227 46gr. I like I have a go to load but the need for a lighter load other than 300gr. Remington is not so bad with the lead sled. Scope and rifle are working so far.
Spit-Fire T-EZ looks good on Barnes web page, but will the sabots hold up or should I look else where for sabots?
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Post by pposey on Oct 10, 2010 7:45:41 GMT -5
You need some MMP 12 sabots or harvester sabots for smokeless powder,,,,, using the sabots that come with the bullets is a nogo,,,, you can order either kind of sabot directly from the companies that make them
are you letting the barrel cool between shots?
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Post by Dave W on Oct 10, 2010 7:53:15 GMT -5
Spit-Fire TMZ 250 gr., was a no go to tight for the bore, sabots came apart but was finding parts of them on the asphalt with 42 gr 4759 same load with the Traditions 250 gr. smackdown SST's fit bore nicely and when fired sabots were never found? Same was true with the IMR 4227 46gr. I like I have a go to load but the need for a lighter load other than 300gr. Remington is not so bad with the lead sled. Scope and rifle are working so far. Spit-Fire T-EZ looks good on Barnes web page, but will the sabots hold up or should I look else where for sabots? The TEZ's I got came with the HPH 24, Barnes must have wanted the sabot to match the tip instead of the usual black sabots. |
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Post by pposey on Oct 10, 2010 7:54:19 GMT -5
Now back to tapered barrels would the pressures be greater than in a big boomer .458 cal cartridge gun? How light would you recomend one to go as far as taper? With a cartridge you know that almost all of the high pressure occurs in the first few inches or so past the end of the cartridge. In say a 458 win mag that is probably within 6 inches of the boltface. QL predicts that a 75 grain load of H4198 under a 300 grain bullet should have the pressure just below 30Kpsi after 5 inches of bullet travel...so about 7 1/2 inches from the boltface. If I go to Krieger I see that they recommend a minimum contour of a #6, which is a heavy bull sporter. The #6 is 1.00 in diameter 6 inches from the breech end of the blank. Add 2 inches for the breechplug and it would probably be fine....or just use lighter loads since you aren't making a beanfield gun....But keep in mind what Krieger suggests IMO, a sporter contour will look funny in a Savage ML stock .... edge. It may look funny but I'm for sheeding all the weight I can and staying safe,,,,, www.pac-nor.com/contours/I think the light sporter would be fine if the D measurment was a full 6 inches,,,, or perhaps the light Palma as D is 5 inches there,,,, using pacnors weight feature you can see that I could shed 1-1.5 pounds |
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Post by pposey on Oct 12, 2010 20:49:33 GMT -5
"QL predicts that a 75 grain load of H4198 under a 300 grain bullet should have the pressure just below 30Kpsi after 5 inches of bullet travel...so about 7 1/2 inches from the boltface.
If I go to Krieger I see that they recommend a minimum contour of a #6, which is a heavy bull sporter.
The #6 is 1.00 in diameter 6 inches from the breech end of the blank.
Add 2 inches for the breechplug and it would probably be fine....or just use lighter loads since you aren't making a beanfield gun....But keep in mind what Krieger suggests "
Can you run that with 58 grains 4198 and a 210 grain bullet payload,,, thats all the bullet and more powder than I will ever use!
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? I mean it's not like we are getting into firefights with these things and need the heavy barrels to soak up heat,, I know the barrel would heat up faster, but could cool faster as well, heck I might go all the way up to 22 inches ;D if I can get a sporter,,, say full size for 6 inches, then a sporter taper from there on out,,,,,
