Maybe it's just not for me

[superkirby]

I'm not sure if it was a bad day at the range, or maybe it was something else, but since I've got it my smokeless just isn't doing it for me. I still really enjoy shooting my Knights, so I don't think it's that I'm burnt out on muzzleloaders all together. I don't know. But right now, I'm strongly considering selling it. I have to think about it a little more, but if anyone wants to by a blued/camo stock Savage, pm me an offer. It only has about 30 shots on it.

[pposey]

Smokeless can be more picky with the higher pressures

[bloodtrailer]

Just so you know these take more range >:(time than a knight to get your load, But you find your load(and shoot in cool weather) you can shoot as well or better than your knights. The best parts are long range and cleaning at the END ;Dof the season, not every time you shoot unless you want to. I own knights :)and love them But I also ;)love my 2 Savages!

[10ga]

Why sell, just get some BH 209 and use that in the MLII. Then you can go back to smokeless if you want! Be nice to have someone give reports etc... on how a MLII does with BP and subs, belted bullets etc.... PM sent. 10

[tdillinger]

Sept 29, 2010 13:35:42 GMT -5 superkirby said:

I'm not sure if it was a bad day at the range, or maybe it was something else, but since I've got it my smokeless just isn't doing it for me. I still really enjoy shooting my Knights, so I don't think it's that I'm burnt out on muzzleloaders all together. I don't know. But right now, I'm strongly considering selling it. I have to think about it a little more, but if anyone wants to by a blued/camo stock Savage, pm me an offer. It only has about 30 shots on it.

Tell us what went wrong at the range and then we can move on.

[rjhans53]

The only thing I can tell ya is when it's 9:30 at night and you've just finished finding that critter, you ain't got to worry about cleaning the gun. It's sort of a very nice feeling

[Chris Champion]

Need details...

[cfvickers]

Have you tried lighter bullets? Mine seems so far to like 225s better than 250 or 300s. Worth a shot. what powders are you working with?

[superkirby]

All very good points. The good is that yesterday when I came in and was mad at it, I put it away and figured I would clean it in a day or two. Definately can't do that with anything else. And I can shoot more shots per session.
On the other hand, 30 shots and I still haven't had a 5 in. group at 75 yards. I'm shooting 43 gr. 4759 with 300 gr. XTP's in MMP sabots. It's one of the book recommended loads. I would think I should be doing a little better.
I'm torn on keeping it or not. I think right now if the right offer showed up, I would sell it. If not, I'll let it have a couple weeks and try again.

[rangeball]

How long are you waiting between shots and what's the ambient temp?

[mike3132]

Sept 30, 2010 8:26:24 GMT -5 superkirby said:

All very good points. The good is that yesterday when I came in and was mad at it, I put it away and figured I would clean it in a day or two. Definately can't do that with anything else. And I can shoot more shots per session.
On the other hand, 30 shots and I still haven't had a 5 in. group at 75 yards. I'm shooting 43 gr. 4759 with 300 gr. XTP's in MMP sabots. It's one of the book recommended loads. I would think I should be doing a little better.
I'm torn on keeping it or not. I think right now if the right offer showed up, I would sell it. If not, I'll let it have a couple weeks and try again.

Sounds like a sighting issue to me.

1. First check for the front scope base mount screw not bottoming out before its tight. Take off the scope and all the screws except the front one and see if the mount moves. If it does you need to grind a couple threads off.

2. Look and see if the front base is riding up on the recoil lug. If you recoil lug is high the front part of the base will not be flat on the receiver.

3. If none of the above things are wrong take the scope off and shoot the gun with open sights @50 yards and see what kind of groups you get.

Please report back so we can proceed to get your gun shooting. Be patient and we can get this gun issue solved. Mike

[superkirby]

Yesterday it was about 60, light breeze left to right, and about minutes between shots. By the end, the barrel was warm, but not hot at all. Everything has been done with open sights at about 75 yards.

[whyohe]

mike is right, be patient. we will get you shooting well. give us more info in the surrounding issues around the load. how hard is the sabot/bullet combo to load. how long you waiting between shots.

and when i first got my savage i shot T-7 for 4 years with excellent results. the only negative was that the bolt face rusted a bit cause its hard to clean PERFECTLY. hard to get in the cracks. My BP subs load was 2 pellets of T-7 and 250grn hornady SST. Had 1inch groups at 100 yards and killed 7 deer with it.

[onecardchuck]

Bingo,

Problem number one is you are not waiting long enough in between shots. Even at 60 degrees after the first two shots and while the barrel is warm you must wait 15 minutes or get a barrel cooler described on the topics of this site. I am not saying that you do not have more than one problem, but not waiting long enough for the barrel to cool is a big accuracy killer.

[rangeball]

Also check to make sure your open sights are tightened securely.

[boarhog]

How many minutes was missing from your post. Without a barrel cooler, you probably should wait 15+ minutes between shots. I can't stand to wait that long, so I use a cooling rod.

Don't give up yet! Smokeless powder is a LOT different than any BP sub, and there is a lot more to learn. I have been frustrated enough to almost throw my first Savage ML10-2 off of the Arkansas River Bridge, but with the help of the fine board members here, I finally figured it out! I'll never go back to the smoking stuff!
Boarhog

[rjhans53]

mine won't shoot the orange sabots worth a hoot, however you put the same 300 gr rem in a crushed rib and it does very well

[bloodtrailer]

Try this wait 15-20mins between shots(less when below 50,40 is even better) your load is good ( my go to with xtp 250)might need to tweak try a .458 bullet Like a Remington 300grn and a black crushed rib harvester sabot . Take your time (bring another gun to shoot while waiting) all 100yrd groups a good rest doesn't hurt LED SLED

[rybo74]

I dont have a cooling rod but I leave my truck running. I put the ac on high on the defrost and lay my gun across it. it is cool in less than 5 minutes. Made a huge difference for me.

[Chris Champion]

5 minutes wait is not enough with a 50 cal Savage in 60F weather. I'm with bloodtrailer, wait 15 minutes between shooting a load and loading components for the next shot. That used to drive me nuts so I never shot my 50 cal Savage unless the temp was 50 or below. Of course double check the scope base riding on recoil lug and front base screw as mentioned above.

[tdillinger]

Sept 30, 2010 16:21:46 GMT -5 Chris Champion said:

5 minutes wait is not enough with a 50 cal Savage in 60F weather. I'm with bloodtrailer, wait 15 minutes between shooting a load and loading components for the next shot. That used to drive me nuts so I never shot my 50 cal Savage unless the temp was 50 or below. Of course double check the scope base riding on recoil lug and front base screw as mentioned above.

What Chris said but with more enthusiasm>

[trooper1]

Get a cooling rod. Also I found that my savage likes loads that are about 10% lighter than factory recommended. I'm still playing with loads but my Savage shoots the remington 45/70 300gr very well and I still get 2100 fps out of the barrel. I can also use harvester or mmp sabots with this bullet. The undeniable advantage to this weapon is the cleaning. I have never owned a muzzleloader before this savage and know why after watching friends of mine cleaning their Knights every night on a recent Kansas hunt. They were quite envious of my savage and I believe that there will be two more of them at camp next year. Bottom line is don't give up. The savage is a picky weapon. but once you find the load it likes you will take it on any trip that the laws allow.

[zakjak221]

Super,

Some guys seem to find a load right away & others need to "tweek" em with many different combos of sabots,powder,bullets,primers etc.
Try some of the ideas listed above and hopefully things will fall in place for you.
Remember that everything has to be "consistant" on every shot--same way each time & to index your bullet/sabots when loading.
Good luck and keep us updated.

Mark

[dans]

Try to find some of your sabots if the base is cracked and flared and some of the petals are missing you are probably not waiting long enough between shots. If they look like flower petals then the sabot is not stressed too much. If they look twisted and strung out then they have definitely failed. 43 grains of 4759 with the 300 grain bullet and mmp sabot should be a pretty accurate load. I would dry patch the rifle between shots and I suggest you take a kitchen timer with you and set it for at least 15 minutes between shots. Keep your rifle and componets in the shade while waiting for it to cool. If it feels warm on the outside it is much warmer on the inside. Heat is the enemy of sabots at smokeless pressures. Don't give up. Report here often and your Savage will be up and running. Once you have used it in the field you will understand what we all get excited about.

[hunter]

If this is a new gun, did you clean the bore really well? It takes a good cleaning to remove the barrel protectant that is in them.

[dans]

+1 what hunter said it took several cleanings to get a clean barrel from the factory.

[edge]

Lots of good suggestions!

1) reduce your load to 38 grains;

2) find the FIRST sabot that you shoot AND verify that the bullet hole in the target is round;

3) WAIT 15 minutes THEN LOAD, don't load then wait!;

4) are the first two shots close to each other?

4A) YES they are close ( ie; under 2 inches )....then go to 3) and keep going ;

4B ) NO, the group stinks..... verify that it is not operator error and let someone else try it or perhaps adjust the trigger if you feel confident.

If you and another shooter can't get under 2 inches with open sights @ 75 yards with a reduced load AND 15 minute waits then contact Joe at Savage.

Personally I would put a scope on it UNLESS you are very proficient with open sights!

SAVAGE CUSTOMER SERVICE DIRECTOR

Joe DeGrande
Director Of Customer Service
Savage Sports Corp.

[e-mail]


edge.

PS if you are set on selling it I'll offer $75.00 for that tomato stake ;D ;D

PPS I forgot to mention that you should KEEP that first sabot for reference! Also if you still have problems post a picture of your targets and of the first sabot...and subsequent sabots that do NOT group.

[dans]

$75, by golly edge you are altruistic after all.