Load question

[jjenkins]

gentleman, i have some hornady FTX 45 cal. .452' 200 grain bullets and was wondering what powder charge i need to use, iam shooting IMR 4198. i use 67 grains when shooting 250 grain XTP and get amazing groups and great results on deer & hogs i have shot. i dont have any other powder at this time so i am hoping you guys can point me in the right direction using this powder. my rifle is a Savage ML II 50 cal

[pposey]

could always start at 67 and work up, thats a stubby bullet don't know how they will fly?

[Richard]

I wouldn't get too excited about them. They MAY............shoot at 100 yards but probably not much in the way of accuracy after that As was mentioned: Too Stubby!
I would think N-110 at about 45 grains my be a good load. You might also get some H-4198. Grain for grain, it will produce more velocity. Herman just shot some yesterday and found the "IMR" version to be much slower than the "H"
Richar

[etj401]

Richard.
I just looked at boarhog post on 9/6/10 and saw that Imr 4198 was a little faster than H 4198. I also looked at RBs post in the load data about powder by bullet weight and he said when using IMR 4198 to reduce the maximum load by 2 grains. I was under the impression that IMR was a little hotter than H. I am in the process of converting to 4198. I have been shooting N120 but cant find any now. Vihtavuori doesnt seem to care so I am switching to a powder that I can always find. I have shot the IMR and get great results with 63 gr in the Pacnor 45 with a 200gr xtp and sst. But I wanted to try H4198 before switching. I want to use the same powder in my 50 cal and 45 cal. I was thinking that I would have to go to 64 or 65 gr to get the same speed that I get with 63 grs IMR in the 45 cal. I was thinking about trying 65 to 67 grs in the 50 cal with a 300 gr sst. Is my thinking wrong ? Should I be decreasing by 1 or 2 grains.? I'm getting confused!

Thanks,

[boarhog]

etj401,
That was my first test comparing the two 4198s. I have more loads weighed up to try ASAP. Both of my jugs are relatively new. Keep in mind how few shots I've tried so far, and that powders can vary quite a bit from lot to lot. One could be affected more by temps than the other, and they could display different burning characteristics under lighter weight bullets. I have read that IMR is more likely to misfire in cold weather, but haven't tried it below 90* yet. As for using it in the 50 cal, my guess is that it may be fine under a 300 grain bullet, but under a 200 or 225 grain bullet, they could need a 10 gr booster charge of N-110 for dependable ignition. I also have a feeling that either powder will likely require a certain minimum load in order to build enough pressure for consistent ignition and obturation. I suggest that you join me in testing/comparing the two powders. Start on the low end of your load range and work up. Chronograph the loads, and report your results here. I know that I'm not the only one that will find such tests very interesting.
Boarhog/Robert

[cfvickers]

I am shooting the 225 FTX and it will shoot 3/4 inch at 100 yards but opens to 3.5 at 200 yards, acceptable but certainly would not go beyond that. I use 4759, and mine will not fire them with anything else.

[herman]

Sorry fellows but richard was going on what I had told him.But I am sure it was backwards.
What happened was that I shot 5 shots of the IMR 4198 with 64 grs.The chrony was not working right.This is what I got:
1-2698,2-2696,3-2603,4- no read,52598.
Was useing the 200 xtps.In my barrel it is very hard to load them.This I really don't understand either because I miked them and they are exactly the same dia. as the 200 sst's.Was baseing these readings on what I had gotten before with the 200 sst's at 64 grs,which averaged around 2750 fps before.
Then I shot 5 useing H4198 with 64 grs. I only got one shot to read so my test was screwed up to start with.1-2625 2thru 5 didn't get a read.
Gave up on them because I thought the numbers were a way off but going to try them again plus with the 200 sst's.
Had planned on posting my results but since it was screwed up I was going to wait till I got more readings.
So you can blame me instead of richard,he was going on what I told him.
Forgot to say,this was with the 45 caliber.

[herman]

Below is some speeds I got back in march with the 225ftx in my 50.Like others they spread out at 200 yds.
If I was dead set on useing the 225's I would try BH209 in my rifle.It may do better past 100 yds.

[Chris Champion]

Sept 15, 2010 18:46:17 GMT -5 etj401 said:

Richard.
I just looked at boarhog post on 9/6/10 and saw that Imr 4198 was a little faster than H 4198. I also looked at RBs post in the load data about powder by bullet weight and he said when using IMR 4198 to reduce the maximum load by 2 grains. I was under the impression that IMR was a little hotter than H. I am in the process of converting to 4198. I have been shooting N120 but cant find any now. Vihtavuori doesnt seem to care so I am switching to a powder that I can always find. I have shot the IMR and get great results with 63 gr in the Pacnor 45 with a 200gr xtp and sst. But I wanted to try H4198 before switching. I want to use the same powder in my 50 cal and 45 cal. I was thinking that I would have to go to 64 or 65 gr to get the same speed that I get with 63 grs IMR in the 45 cal. I was thinking about trying 65 to 67 grs in the 50 cal with a 300 gr sst. Is my thinking wrong ? Should I be decreasing by 1 or 2 grains.? I'm getting confused!

Thanks,

etj401...what speed are you currently getting with 63g IMR4198 in your 45? In my experience if you had both a 45 and 50 cal and wanted to shoot one powder then H4198 is probably about as good as it gets. I shot H4198 in my 50 cal with the 300g BO and BCR sabot and got very good results. Consistent 1 to 1.5 MOA accuracy out to 250 yds. My load was 67g and was good for 2400 fps even in very cold temps. In my 25" 45 cal Pacnor I hunt with 63g H4198 and thats good for about 2750 fps and MOA or better 3 shot groups out to 300 yds.

I helped my cousin and another buddy set up 50 cal Savages two years ago and they both shoot H4198 with similar results. One of them shoots 67g with the 300 SST and I think the regular Harvester short black sabot. He gets consistent 1.5 MOA accuracy and just under 2400 fps.

[whopperstopper]

Sept 15, 2010 22:14:42 GMT -5 cfvickers said:

I am shooting the 225 FTX and it will shoot 3/4 inch at 100 yards but opens to 3.5 at 200 yards, acceptable but certainly would not go beyond that. I use 4759, and mine will not fire them with anything else.

Are you shooting a 45 or 50 cal. and how many grns of 4759. I shoot the 235OTs and get great groups at 100 and 150 then 200 opens to about 8in. correct me if I'm wrong did you just buy a 6.5x284 Savage LRH if so hows that working out.

[etj401]

Chris & boarhog,
I dont have a chrony so I am not sure about the speed that I am shooting. I am relying on info from this site. From what I have seen on this site, 63gr IMR 4198 should be around 2700-2750fps.
in the 45 cal with a 200 gr bullet. From what I have seen here, 64 gr H4198 should be about the same speed. I have not shoot any 4198 in the 50cal yet but plan on trying both H & IMR soon.
I bought Riflemans 50 cal and it will shoot. His load was 60gr of N120 and 300 BO with Black crushed rib sabot. This combo loaded extra had for me so I switched to a 300 sst and mmp hp24 and still maintained the accuracy. I think this load is shooting around 2300 fps from what I have read. I would be happy shooting the 50 cal with 4198 around the same speed or slightly faster. I tried 70 gr of IMR 4198 in another 50 cal that I had and it kicked pretty stiff. I am thinking that 65 - 67gr of H4198 should be around that 2300 fps. with the 300 sst. I could use IMR 4198 but there is more info on H4198 on this site. I see very few people shooting the IMR. I like the N120 but like I said it is getting too hard to find. I want a powder that can be shot in the 45 & 50 cal. I see a lot of people using H4198 in both the 45 & 50 cal but want to make sure about the maximum amounts to use in both guns.
Thanks

[Chris Champion]

etj401

When it comes to max amounts of H4198, both the 45 and 50 should give you tell tale signs of what the max amount will likely be. In the 45 your sabot will probably tell you what your max amount and in the 50 your shoulder will tell you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[DBinNY]

Chris, you are shooting the Barnes 195 knurled, correct? I haven't tried it knurled yet but I seem to get higher velocity with the SSTs. IIRC I got around 2700 fps with the SSTs and around 2600 fps with the Barnes at 63 gr H4198.

[boarhog]

Now you guys have me convinced that I need to try H-4198 and VV N-120 in my 50s!

[Chris Champion]

Sept 16, 2010 19:09:57 GMT -5 DBinNY said:

Chris, you are shooting the Barnes 195 knurled, correct? I haven't tried it knurled yet but I seem to get higher velocity with the SSTs. IIRC I got around 2700 fps with the SSTs and around 2600 fps with the Barnes at 63 gr H4198.

DB...Yes I shoot the 195 Barnes knurled. Better accuracy and a little higher velocity are the results. IIRC I get 60 to 80 fps faster knurled vs no knurl. I roll them back and forth 5 times between two double cut bastard files. I don't know what they mic but they load a little more to my liking, (i.e. tighter). The SST always shot a little faster for me too. Now that I knurl the Barnes they are pretty close. The Barnes groups better with a fouled barrel where the SST will group starting with the 1st shot off a clean bore.

[DBinNY]

Thanks Chris, I'm going to try that too. Good to know.