N110 as a single in saboted .45

[rangeball]

Looking at the load database, see N110 is listed with a 195-200 bullet, 33-40 grains, but no fps range listed. Any idea what speeds one could expect? I assume in the .45 the N110 retains it's temp and ignition stability? How is it on sabots, particularly the smooth blue harvester?

[boarhog]

I have not tried N-110 as a single in my 45, but will be happy to try the load you suggest, and report chronograph results.

[rangeball]

That would be fantastic I assume someone's tried it at some point as it made it to the database, but filling in the speed and how it treats sabots would be great.

[boarhog]

OK, I'll weigh up a few vials of N-110. Maybe 36 gr and 40 gr to try with the 200 gr XTP. Will let you know how it goes. It should be interesting.

[rangeball]

Can't wait. I shoot 42gr N110 under saboted 250 and 300gr out of my .50. Will be real interesting to see the speeds you get.

[boarhog]

I weighed up 38, 40, and 42 gr vials of N-110. Three shots each. That should be enough to get some chrono data.

[dave d.]

:)i'm pretty sure rb suggested not much more then 40grs.if i recall right he said velocity's would be in the 2300 range.

[ronc]

My 45 Encore with a 26" barrel shoots 37gr VV110 with a 180 Barnes and MMP sabot at 2590 FPS. It usually groups that load around 1".

My 45 cal SMI with 28" barrel with the same 37gr load shoots the 200 SST and MMP sabots at a little over 2600 FPS and 1.25" groups.

30gr VV110 is around 1600 fps in mine and 38gr will blow the sabots on a warm day.

The plain blue Harvester sabots are too loose in the Encore barrel, even with knurling. Hope this helps.

Ron

[boarhog]

ronc,
Thanks for the warning! Glad I didn't get a chance to shoot today! I think I'll back off to 36 gr as a starting load. I have not been blowing Harvester Blue sabots, or MMP Tan, @ 102* since I've been using the Fancy Full Length Rod Kooler. It is supposed to be a cold snap tomorrow! Only 95-98*, but a chance of rain. I hope to get a few shots in before the rain starts.
Boarhog

[topusmc]

When I had a Savage ML the only powder I used was N 110, and the only bullet I used was a Lightfield Alpha gold. Don't know the MV but they were very accurate at 100 yards. Two deer shot at, two bagged with plenty of blood from one and the other was a bang flop. Never had a hang fire and they are easy to load. That was a very fine shooting combination, just never got to like it. I am not sure of the charge, but I think it was 34 gr. The lightfield book does not list N110 but has a load for H110 and Reloader. Lot of luck

[boarhog]

rangeball,
I managed to get some shooting done today. The following three loads were all using the 40 cal. 200 gr XTP, smooth Blue Harvester sabot, and CCI-209M primer:

#1. 36 gr VV N-110. ES-14, AV-2379, SD-7.

#2. 38 gr N-110. ES-16, AV-2434, SD-8.

#3. 40 gr N-110, ES-31, AV-2481, SD-15. ( I believe this is about max with this powder)

I did not get very good accuracy, but recovered sabots looked like the petals had been stretched in loading. I wanted to try the same loads with the Harvester Blue Cr Rib sabot, but didn't have any with me.

I hope this gives you the info you wanted.
Boarhog/Robert

[pposey]

What other powder would be a close fit for N110? cant get it around here short of ordering,,,

[ronc]

IMR 4759 is very close in burning rate to get good velocity using about the same weight charges. You might start at 34gr or 35gr and go from there.

[rangeball]

Thanks Boarhog. Great info. I was hoping your results would have been closer to Ronc's, but I assume your barrel is a bit shorter than the ones he listed? You have a pacnor on savage, right? What length barrel?

When my 45 project wraps up, I'll need to try some as well. It will have a 28" barrel so maybe I can get more speed. I have N110 and H4198 here to try, hoping to hit 2600+ fps with the 195 barnes and RB harvesters with a single powder, nothing here to duplex with.

Thanks again

[pposey]

N110 is pretty fast, a short barrel should still burn it all

[rangeball]

True, but wouldn't there still be an fps boost from the longer barrel due to more time under pressure?

[dave d.]

:)range 110 is a fast powder for the .45 so I don't think a longer barrel will help but if you throw 4198,323,or 2015 you will see a difference.

[boarhog]

My barrel is 24". If you have H-4198, that is a great powder to use in a 45. I shot 62 grains under a 225 gr FTX, sabot less, and got an average of 2623 fps. With a sabot under a 200 gr bullet, the speed is more like 2800+.

I learned something Sunday. Apparently, my sabots were heated enough, during the 20 minute trip to the range, to be softened. I did not have any "Blown" sabots, but they were a bit sticky to load, and I recovered several with stretched petals. After putting them in my ice chest for a while, my groups shrank to around 1" for 3 shots.
Robert

[rangeball]

:)range 110 is a fast powder for the .45 so I don't think a longer barrel will help but if you throw 4198,323,or 2015 you will see a difference.

Thanks

Jul 26, 2010 11:52:16 GMT -5 boarhog said:

My barrel is 24". If you have H-4198, that is a great powder to use in a 45. I shot 62 grains under a 225 gr FTX, sabot less, and got an average of 2623 fps. With a sabot under a 200 gr bullet, the speed is more like 2800+.

I had thought 2600 was about top speed with a saboted 195/200 over 62gr of 4198. 2800+ would be sweet, and with my longer barrel I may get more? Can't wait to find out

I learned something Sunday. Apparently, my sabots were heated enough, during the 20 minute trip to the range, to be softened. I did not have any "Blown" sabots, but they were a bit sticky to load, and I recovered several with stretched petals. After putting them in my ice chest for a while, my groups shrank to around 1" for 3 shots.

Interesting, and something I wouldn't have even considered. Nice catch
Robert[/quote]

[dave d.]

:)range at 220ft above sea level and 55 degrees my chrono showed 2720 fps with 62grs. My barrel is 24".

[rangeball]

Well, that just may be all right

Thanks again. Can't wait to play.

[Richard]

Remember.......................There comes a point where longer does not make more velocity! Once a powder has completely burned and produced all the gas it can, (while the bullet is still in the bore) the bullet will begin to slow from friction. By the same token, if a powder is too slow, it will still be burning as the bullet exits the bore (along with fire). The trick is to get a powder that burns completely just prior to the bullet exiting. This is where spending time at the range and varying different charges pays off. If I shoot a load one week with a given charge and get a given velocity.................then the following week up the charge and find no increase in velocity (or very little) than I can assume I have gotten all I can out of that load.
Now, by duplexing, I can say.......................reduce that MAX "65" grain load to "55" gr. and boost it with say 5 to 10 gr. of N-110 or 5744 and see what the results are? Maybe drop the main charge a little more and up the booster a little more. This is called "tweaking" If you go thru the loads I have listed, you will see this week in and week out. I generally work up in small amounts looking for speed increases and accuracy. Sometimes speed will go up but accuracy will drop. For me, this is what makes playing with these smokeless ML's interesting. With all this playing and tweaking, I have a 23" .45 PN that is capable of 3100+ fps with a 200 gr. saboted bullet; accuracy is not quite as good as the 2900 to 3,000 fps loads!
With my new 26" barrel which should be here in another month, I will be playing with slower main charges. Probably N-133 and 2015. 3200 fps should be a no brainer but accuracy remains to be seen?
Richard

[rangeball]

Richard, I read all your duplex stuff with great interest. Unfortunately, if I recall you didn't have much luck with N110 as a booster for H4198, the only two powders I have to play with, so I am concentrating on a single powder.

Hope to get a good baseline load with 4198, I had no idea it would move a saboted 200 that fast, fps info in the load database is lacking, and it may in fact do all I want it to do.

[deadon]

Jul 26, 2010 8:33:02 GMT -5 ronc said:

IMR 4759 is very close in burning rate to get good velocity using about the same weight charges. You might start at 34gr or 35gr and go from there.

Has anyone tried 4759 as a single load powder in a 45. If it works, you sure would get more bangs for the buck ;D Rusty

[deadon]

Jul 26, 2010 16:14:31 GMT -5 deadon said:

Jul 26, 2010 8:33:02 GMT -5 ronc said:

IMR 4759 is very close in burning rate to get good velocity using about the same weight charges. You might start at 34gr or 35gr and go from there.

Has anyone tried 4759 as a single load powder in a 45. If it works, you sure would get more bangs for the buck ;D Rusty

I just found Poseys post ,maybe 4759 not so good Rusty

[Richard]

Range..............I'm not sure what part of the country you are from..........(cold country or warm?). If from the colder parts, you might want to use (a small amount) maybe five or six gr. of N-110 under say........55 to 58 gr. of H-4198 as an "insurance/igniter?". Have your rifle loaded with this load when you first go into the woods. Then, if you should need a second shot, carry single loads of say....62 gr. of H-4198. (In the event duplexing in the woods is too much trouble) Obviously, shoot both loads before hand to see their velocity and POI. In all probability, they will impact pretty close. I personally would highly recommend a recessed breech plug for added insurance. I really like it with the duplex loads since it really concentrates the booster and isolates it (sort of keeps from mixing) from the main charge for very positive ignition.
Primer>>>>>>>>>short flame travel>>>>>>>>>>concentrated fast burning booster>>>>>MAIN charge!>>>>>> Bang !
Richard

[deadon]

Jul 26, 2010 16:42:42 GMT -5 Richard said:

Range..............I'm not sure what part of the country you are from..........(cold country or warm?). If from the colder parts, you might want to use (a small amount) maybe five or six gr. of N-110 under say........55 to 58 gr. of H-4198 as an "insurance/igniter?". Have your rifle loaded with this load when you first go into the woods. Then, if you should need a second shot, carry single loads of say....62 gr. of H-4198. (In the event duplexing in the woods is too much trouble) Obviously, shoot both loads before hand to see their velocity and POI. In all probability, they will impact pretty close. I personally would highly recommend a recessed breech plug for added insurance. I really like it with the duplex loads since it really concentrates the booster and isolates it (sort of keeps from mixing) from the main charge for very positive ignition.
Primer>>>>>>>>>short flame travel>>>>>>>>>>concentrated fast burning booster>>>>>MAIN charge!>>>>>> Bang !
Richard

Is the recessed BP advantageous for single powder loads? Thanks, Rusty

[pposey]

Jul 26, 2010 16:30:30 GMT -5 deadon said:

Jul 26, 2010 16:14:31 GMT -5 deadon said:

Has anyone tried 4759 as a single load powder in a 45. If it works, you sure would get more bangs for the buck ;D Rusty

I just found Poseys post ,maybe 4759 not so good Rusty

It was blowing sabots pretty regular for me with a fouled barrel,,, I like to hunt with a fouled barrel though so,,,,,,,,,, I was using Fed 209M primers,,, I could try with non mags and see

[Richard]

Deadon.................Yes.
Richard

[Dave W]

Jul 26, 2010 13:59:43 GMT -5 dave d. said:

:)range at 220ft above sea level and 55 degrees my chrono showed 2720 fps with 62grs. My barrel is 24".

Similar speeds for me as well, 26" barrel, 2800fps @ 70*.

Posey, Dave D has shot 4227, think the speeds were approx. 2600fps, not sure about the charge weight.