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Post by rkrobson on Jan 13, 2015 19:05:25 GMT -5
Can someone tell me how to Post the picture rather than the link? There was no imr choice avaolable, thanks, Ray
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Post by encore50a on Jan 13, 2015 19:10:21 GMT -5
Ive had Ultimates for 10 years or so and actually my second rifle fouled cases from the start with Pyro pellets, I had a gunsmith headspace it to eliminate the problem. I didn't know what gas cutting was until I got a Munden 45 and started shooting smokeless, wow! sometimes at 50 shots 300 gr bullet with 68 gr VV120 and cases were ruined. Thats why Iam with the Hankins team now, there may be a better system in the future but Jeff has solved a lot of problems for me with his plugs and primer holders. As to Ultimates and their plugs and cases, the cases themselves will vary up to .015 when seated on plug, this in itself will allow some gases to escape. The picture here shows the difference of .008 just checking 10 cases. You will also notice two different nipples on these two plugs, the one has a tit extension(forgive my french)older plug and the newer plg Ultimate is using.I make my plugs servicable by doing the Petes Plug notches and his tool for removing as you'll break the plug nipple off using the 7/16 socket. I mostly shoot Blackhorn unless its prohibited. Kens been good to me as Ive done a lot of testing with his guns including one 45 Lothar Walther, don't waste your time, too much pressure for his system. There is a new problem that has just come up with the brass, Starline started using a new cup to make the 45 Win Mag cases, and as a result the bases are .030 thicker, a better case overall, but they will not chamber on my older gun as it was headspaced with older cases. ken is sending out some tool to me to modify the nipple. Any Ultimate owners can verify this with Ken. I talked to Starline myself to figure out what was wrong.This would not affect a user for reloading only people who use the case on a system like Ultimates.For those who don't know its a flat plug at breech end and when it comes to pellets it likes them a lot, I know one guy who has documented every shot and has 2600 rounds with no service to gun. I haven't done pics in a while, I hope they download, Ray i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/flagman4300/20150113_154547.jpgi539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/flagman4300/20150113_1550450.jpgi539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/flagman4300/20150113_154740.jpgRay, could it be that Ken is sending the tool for the brass or, is it actually for the nipple?
He sent me the tool in the photo for cases that won't allow the bolt to close.
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Post by encore50a on Jan 13, 2015 19:11:46 GMT -5
Can someone tell me how to Post the picture rather than the link? There was no imr choice avaolable, thanks, Ray When in photobucket, click on the photo. On the right side of the screen there will be links. Click on the bottom one, which auto copies. Then come here and just right click and paste.
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Post by encore50a on Jan 13, 2015 19:31:48 GMT -5
I would say that 416 stainless or any other metals for that matter will gas cut,, most probably on the very first shot that the brass case fails. Once the first case fails and the nipple gets a small micro gas cut in it, it will continue to leak and the gas cut will get bigger with each shot and ruin the brass priming case on its first shot.. Jeff.. Thank you Jeff.
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Post by rkrobson on Jan 13, 2015 19:54:04 GMT -5
Could be George, as I took a primer pocker uniformer and got them to work, that tool will probably do the job. But with two guns I will probably change the head space to make it simpler, Ray
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 13, 2015 21:08:52 GMT -5
Jeff do you have any plans to make a direct replacement plug for the RU using your LRMP modules? I realize it may need to be head spaced and not a direct drop in replacement. Im not talking about a SML conversion just a smoker using the original barrel. It seems to me that your LRMP system would completely end the BH209 issues. I have already been thinking about that. I believe I can make a direct replacement plug that should require no head spacing. Don't get your hopes up as I am covered up with ideas already... Jeff...
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Post by 10ga on Jan 14, 2015 16:36:08 GMT -5
To all: considering: In 07 I got my 1st MLII and it took me finding this forum and considerable effort to get the MLII to shoot. Well I ended up with a very good shooting SML, after learning about sabot failure, weak vs strong primers, sabot to bore thickness, fast vs slow powder and other SML specifics. Thanks all for their help and assistance. Now i'm an addict, and therapy isn't available in the regular sector of addiction remediation. The suppliers of relief are not to be found everywhere, but the relief they supply is very gratifying. Now I have 5 SML, yeah 2 remmys, and recently disposed 2 donor action rifles and am still looking for a fix, shows how consuming the SML addiction can be. Already mapped a route to the spring shoot and getting a gun ready for the 100 and another for the 200 shoot, sooner I know the dates sooner I have a cleared calendar. Also freezing sum catfish fillets for feeding the hungry, crispy fish is good. Propane ready and iron pots and peanutoil in the camp gear. Wish I could shoot and see like 20 years ago when I was just in my 40s but now great fun to be had and perhaps a lucky string will come my way. Will be nice to share sum "pie" with guys. I'll do my best to have a remmy that will do all the "big green" guys proud. Hope all are surviving the cold and getting the smoke-less poles ready to go. Who'll have converted or stock "ultimates" at the spring shoot? 10
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Post by sgellis on Jan 17, 2015 11:38:49 GMT -5
I have one, and I see it as more of an improvement on the old defunct Remington, being more up to speed with the custom Ultimate Rifle, but at a much lower production cost. I don't see it as a Remington take on the smokeless Savage. What I like about this new Remington, over the custom Ultimate Rifle, is the improvements to the breech plug and ignition system. The Remington shoots Blackhorn 209 exceedingly well, whereas the Ultimate Rifle does not, as the Ultimate Rifle breech plug is designed for pellets. In addition, the Remington breech plug is user replaceable and low maintenance. It's near perfection for running the Blackhorn. I'll hear guys claim of getting only a shot or two from each priming case. Don't have a clue what they are doing, but using normal priming techniques, same as I do for loading my center-fire cartridges, I've gone to four reloads so far on one lot of cases, that being a total of five firings, and have yet to see any blow back. I purchased these through Remington in a case lot, and they were markedly cheaper. I believe it worked out to something around $18 bucks per bag, including shipping. So far, that looks like something around 15 cents each for five firings. I intend to sacrifice a breech plug and run my test lot until performance failure to find an average for how many times I can recycle the cases. In addition, will see how far I can abuse the breech plug with leakage to see how it fairs. Long term goal is to determine that average max number, say they go 6, 7, or 8 times or so, and I'll just back off a couple times and use that as maximum case life for my current lot. In addition, if down the road I begin to see the breech plug degrade causing pre-mature blow back, I'll just swap out with a spare. The breech plugs are not expensive and they are user friendly plug and play. Depending on demand, you may find one over the counter at a store for under $800. If you have access to dealer costs, then of course it would be cheaper, again if you can find one. If you desire to shoot Blackhorn 209 with a top shelf ignition system, then this rifle should be on your short list. If you have no desire to shoot Blackhorn 209 and are most interested in shooting smokeless, then maybe you should look elsewhere. Mine is needed for CO elk, so I intent to shoot fixed sights, Blackhorn, and the new Federal "non-sabot" bullet. So far, my rifle is shooting exceedingly well and I believe it to be a good choice. I've been happy running Blackhorn in the 91 grains to 98 grains weight range (130 to 140 grains volume), but a number of guys, including Bob Parker are running 160 grain volume loads with stellar performance out the same rifle. Whenever Western Powder completes their testing and come out with their "Remington Ultimate Only" loads, if they proof Parker's loads as safe, then I would certainly think that would be the bomb for those seeking 400 yard long range performance with a BP Substitute rifle, especially one that is rack grade production, yet shoots near custom rifle accurate. Best Well thought out post. Thank you. My hopes is that we will see more and more people testing the Remington Ultimate with BH209 and start establishing some load development with it. I for one am glad to see someone actually owning one and shooting one that is speaking up rather than someone that is pointing out the flaws in a muzzleloader they haven’t even handled yet let alone shot yet. I've received a good deal of advice, here and on another board, both in posts and in PMs, from many, who do not own this new rifle, with suggestions and warnings reference the new Remington barrel, rifling, the Remington made breech plug, and their ignition system. Though I've yet to see any issue with my particular rifle reference these warnings, I decided to explore some of these suggestions to determine there feasibility as options in the event I ran into such problems, as warned, with my rifle. I've been given a few references to contact, one of whom I already knew, so I called and explored those options. To quote Bob (Parker), the reports I've received contain "both fact and fiction". This is where I stand, and I would suggest others to explore for themselves to determine such personal favorites and choices. First, building a smokeless muzzleloader. I have two mutual aquantances with Bob, a custom smokeless rifle builder I've known for over a quarter century, and the man who shoots for the builder and hunts with his custom built rifle. Though many are making extremely accurate smokeless muzzleloaders, I cannot imagine any that could produce the long string of tiny groups shot at 500 yards and game animal kills at much further distances as this particular smokeless rifle. It is most definitely top shelf, and would likely be my choice if I went that route. But, I have zero interest in hunting with a smokeless muzzleloader, and due to current legalities, it would be a no-no. Black Powder (the real deal), Replicates of Black Powder (Pyrodex or 777), or Non-Replicate Substitutes (Blackhorn 209), would be mandatory. Second, converting a smoker to smokeless. As much as the above, built from the ground up, custom smokeless muzzleloader is liked, if wanting a conversion made, Hankin gets the vote. I received a good deal of positive feedback on the Hankin barrel/breech plug conversion. Bob (Parker) had Hankin convert a T/C Pro Hunter and is pleased. But again, I have no interest in smokeless. Third, the factory Remington Ultimate 50cal using Blackhorn 209. Most of my feedback in this area came from a personal friend, who shoots and hunts with his rifle using the Blackhorn, my own personal rifle, and Bob (Parker). The remaining feedback are from those I do not know from Adam, but they actually own and shoot the rifle. I believe Bob put it best, calling it "the most user friendly muzzleloader" he has shot. No issues with the new Remington breech plug and ignition, and pretty much nothing but positive feedback on the rifle and its performance. Trying to pin down differences between the old Johnston breech plug design, and the new Remington design, it appears to have improvements over and above that of just the steel used. The threads are finer, stronger, more protected, and resist erosion, to eliminate those issues experienced with the Johnston breech plug. The new design will break loose from full 100 in/lb torque with approximately only 80 in/lb applied torque, making it very user friendly. It does not experience the removal issues of the Johnston plug, stripped threads, rounded off nipples, etc. In addition, the sealing of the ignition case appears fairly good and uniform for the case life as recommended by Remington. I realize some are reporting second or third hand that someone else is seeing only one re-prime before failure, but, I've been unable to confirm this first hand. I may attempt a test, by repeatedly chambering a new case a half dozen times or so, and then fire the case. So it always possible that an excited new owner is wearing out a new case before firing the rifle the first time. But, I'm just not seeing this occur on my end, the rifle just plain works. As far as a drop-in Hankin plug to leave it 50cal sub powders with his module system, that animal does not appear to exist. If it did, there is no data to support it is capable of duplicating the ignition performance of the Remington ignition, by burning such a large volume of power within the barrel. All previous attempts using various modules and plugs had failed, hence the industry debate over the reality of burning 200 grains 777 pellets. It seems pretty clear that it is now proven with the new Remington plug, so that point is moot in my book. End results, feedback I have received from end users of this rifle have me leaning toward staying on my current track with the factory plug and ignition system. All the warnings I've received reference the barrel, rifling, breech plug, ignition cases, and running Blackhorn 209 seem to fall into Bob's category of fiction, and not fact. Absent any normal production line hiccups with assembly, it appears to be a well thought out and well executed production rifle that works. Best
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Post by sgellis on Jan 17, 2015 11:56:39 GMT -5
Just a note on loads. Bob suggests I switch over to the 300 Match Hunter shooting the Blackhorn. He believes I'd have ample velocity with my load for that particular bullet to work well. Reports from hunters killing game with that combo was available, and the feedback was positive. So, I will include the Match Hunter in my next round of tests. later
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Post by encore50a on Jan 17, 2015 14:18:58 GMT -5
The owner picked up his RU this morning that I'd been working with. He brought his wife, who brought doggy treats knowing we have a small dog. She made a very good new best friend with those treats........ :wink: He personally reviewed the entire process from start to date. After the final attempt at cleaning, the rifle was lubricated and put into my safe. When he arrived today I ran a patch down the barrel, basically for two reasons. First was to show him the condition of the patch, just swabbing out the lubrication. It came out black and he was quite surprised. I swabbed the barrel until the last patch came out in the condition it went into the barrel. He assumed the barrel was completely clean. I put on a NEW and UNUSED Montana Xtreme NYLON BRUSH and brushed the bore. Then ran another clean patch down the barrel, which came out black again. I patched again until they came out as clean as they entered. Then second, the bore scope went down the barrel where he immediately noticed the tooling marks. He is an electrical and mechanical engineer with a number of custom CF rifles, so he has some clue about what a barrel should look like. He viewed the entire barrel from end to breech a number of times. His conclusion was also tooling chatter. The barrel was then re-lubricated. He has already discussed his rifle with Remington, who wants the rifle sent back to them. He is sending additional photos, along with all the documentation. If what happens with this rifle is like one other rifle, the entire rifle will be replaced, not just a re-barrel. Matt Watts www.wattsammunition.com/ sold three rifles, two of which the owners were very happy with. The third was very displeased. Matt himself shot that RU and couldn't hit a 4 foot x 4 foot piece of cardboard at 37 yards. The rifle was sent back to Remington in October and Matt received a NEW replacement rifle without explanation. That's great for that owner. I'm totally certain that Remington will correct this owner's rifle, either by re-barreling it or sending him a new rifle. He asked if I would still be willing to set the rifle up and develop the load when the rifle is returned. Of course I will...... I might add another owner's experience about removing the breech plug from his personal RU rifle. I asked for permission, which was given, to copy and paste his experience.......... "I got the breechplug out of the Rem. UML! Or rather, the gunsmith at Williams Gunsight did. After soaking the breech with kroil for a week, I tried one last time with a 1/2 inch drive socket. No go. Even the 'smith had a little difficulty. He said the breechplug was coated with anti-sieze but was probably installed by a gorilla. The owners manual said to tighten it to 100 inch pounds. I'll just tighten it to "snug inch pounds". My advice to new Rem UML owners.....take out, or have the breechplug taken out BEFORE you fire the rifle. If you are comfortable with having a non-removable breechplug......more power to you. It will just make it harder to clean well. [But it bugged the living daylights out of me not being able to remove it.] For your info. the 5/16 deep well socket sold by Auto Zone has the right contour to get into the action and fit snugly over the nipple on the plug. The best part was that Williams didn't charge me to remove it! Warranty work they said. Today I am a happy man."
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Post by mainous on Jan 23, 2015 11:54:34 GMT -5
Hello there. I'm a newbie to the board following a conversation with Jeff Hankins. The knowledge I have gleaned concerning primer holder sealing and gas cutting has been eye opening. I was way excited to see that Remington put this new piece on market. Long story short, I'm an inline muzzleloader junkie and had to have one. I'm also a dedicated BH209 user. After only one re-prime on my brass, I am already seeing leakage in several of my primer holders. My initial thought was a headspacing issue hence my call to Jeff. I've attached two pics. One shows a leak free case and the other a case that is darkened inside from leakage. You can see that there is a seating issue. Neither of these cases were perfectly sqaure when checked with a caliper. However, in my mind, it shouldn't matter as long as the face of the base seats squarely on the nipple in the BP. The leaking case clearly doesn't seat squarely. When everything is assembled in the ML the face of the BP will be square to the face of the bolt leaving a bad seal which will ultimately start to gas cut. I've seen everyone's facts and opinions on this but doesn't this show a quality issue with the brass? On the other hand if the headspacing is super tight it may help compensate. Has anyone come up with a way of accurately measuring headspace on this system? I've been toying with the idea of using engine bearing crush material between the face of the BP and the brass.
Thanks, Jeff
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Post by encore50a on Jan 23, 2015 12:24:14 GMT -5
Assuming it was the bottom photo where the case leaked, were the primers flush after firing in both pieces of brass? The tighter the fit, the less chance of gas leaking. Interesting..........
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Post by mainous on Jan 23, 2015 16:07:07 GMT -5
It is the bottom pic Tha show the issue. The primers protrude from the base several thousandths after firing. Hence my concern over head space.
Jeff
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Post by encore50a on Jan 23, 2015 16:24:12 GMT -5
It is the bottom pic Tha show the issue. The primers protrude from the base several thousandths after firing. Hence my concern over head space. Jeff Its going to take one of the pro's to answer the head spacing question. What I know about the UF Inc. rifle, is that the brass must be tight, then they give a good seal. That's why I posted the photo of the tool that I can use if the bolt closes to hard on a specific case/s. I uniform all my primer pockets, prior to priming new brass and I've found the pocket is much cleaner after firing.
Question....... can you photo the inside of both those pieces of brass, which will show any gas leaking?
This is how from new unfired brass, to a complete gas cut, that happened to mine:
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Post by sgellis on Jan 23, 2015 17:07:52 GMT -5
It is the bottom pic Tha show the issue. The primers protrude from the base several thousandths after firing. Hence my concern over head space. Jeff It is normal for primers to back out of the U.M.L. primed casings when fired. This is a function of the primer firing without the pressure of an internal powder charge parking the case head against the breech face; the main powder charge is on the other side of the breech plug. You can read about this in the Real Guns article. In the article, they recycle the cases six to seven times without a problem: Remington's Model 700SF Ultimate Muzzle Loader www.realguns.com/articles/649.htm
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Post by rkrobson on Jan 23, 2015 19:52:46 GMT -5
I have shot a over a thousand rounds with 3 different Ultimates and the issue with powder blow by is a function of the seal of the case on the breech plug. I have had a gunsmith head space for tight fit with the loosest case. As I show above the cases vary. With the new lot of cases I just got in, Ken sent me the case primer pocket reamer that Encore50a shows above as the new case bases were .025 thicker. The reamer does not match the nipple contour on the breech plug perfectly and therefore the seal must be snug or you'll get blow by, I know I shot the new reamed cases today and two of the reamed cases leaked even though they were snug. Part of my problem is this rifle is older and has the old style plug. Does anyone know if the new Remington breech plug will fit in Kens rifles? Ray
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Post by sgellis on Jan 23, 2015 20:10:45 GMT -5
It appears the new plug may have more threads per inch.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 23, 2015 20:23:22 GMT -5
Is this a Rem700/40-X bolt from a UF or is it from a Rem Ultimate?
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Post by rkrobson on Jan 23, 2015 20:43:38 GMT -5
Sounds like it is a new Remington based his post above. The thread on my Ultimates is 11/16 X 16 if anyone knows what the New Remongton is, thanks, Ray
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 23, 2015 20:51:32 GMT -5
Keith. The Remington ultimate is built on a 40x target action.. Copied down to the T... Solid bottom action. Drilled and tapped on the left side for a sight block too.. Remington could have saved at least $100.00 per gun if they ordered the correct stock for it instead of a BDL stock.. The ADL would have made for a much cleaner rifle with out the floor plate.. I know they say it was designed to hold some extra priming cases but truth be known it was an ordering mistake on one of the engineers. I could get 10 cases out of my pocket faster than someone can get one out of this so-called storage compartment.. Plus the storage compartment only holds the case. Does not hold a billet or powder so you are still needing another method to carry and store these two items.. I prefer to keep all three of those in the same pocket.... Jeff..
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 23, 2015 21:01:47 GMT -5
Keith. The Remington ultimate is built on a 40x target action.. Copied down to the T... Solid bottom action. Drilled and tapped on the left side for a sight block too... FML, a switch barrel waiting to happen. I've been thinking about selling my 3-barrel, fast twist, Renegade to buy another 700ML so I could still have an open ignition gun for western hunts but I might buy one of these first and make it a switch barrel .40/.50
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 23, 2015 21:12:58 GMT -5
That would be easy to do.. Jeff
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Post by miketodd58 on Jan 23, 2015 22:30:43 GMT -5
Keith. The Remington ultimate is built on a 40x target action.. Copied down to the T... Solid bottom action. Drilled and tapped on the left side for a sight block too.. Remington could have saved at least $100.00 per gun if they ordered the correct stock for it instead of a BDL stock.. The ADL would have made for a much cleaner rifle with out the floor plate.. I know they say it was designed to hold some extra priming cases but truth be known it was an ordering mistake on one of the engineers. I could get 10 cases out of my pocket faster than someone can get one out of this so-called storage compartment.. Plus the storage compartment only holds the case. Does not hold a billet or powder so you are still needing another method to carry and store these two items.. I prefer to keep all three of those in the same pocket.... Jeff.. I'm with you on the BDL floor plate. While that may seem cool and gee wiz. In practicality it seems sorta meh. i would probably opt to retro fit it so it held a single speed loader. Maybe some sort of but cuff for the modules. That way you always have at least on extra shot on board case you forget the pocket full of reloads or get separated from your filed pack or possibles bag.
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Post by miketodd58 on Jan 23, 2015 22:36:38 GMT -5
Keith. The Remington ultimate is built on a 40x target action.. Copied down to the T... Solid bottom action. Drilled and tapped on the left side for a sight block too... FML, a switch barrel waiting to happen. I've been thinking about selling my 3-barrel, fast twist, Renegade to buy another 700ML so I could still have an open ignition gun for western hunts but I might buy one of these first and make it a switch barrel .40/.50 I had the hots for a switch barrel bolt gun many moons ago. Spent a big chunk of change on one too. Having to to switch out scopes or re zero sort of took some of the thrill out of it, i wound up up with a TC contender with a slew full of barrels with dedicated scopes and mounts. Worked really well and was much cheaper than setting up the switch barrel 700
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 24, 2015 5:04:30 GMT -5
I had the hots for a switch barrel bolt gun many moons ago. Spent a big chunk of change on one too. Having to to switch out scopes or re zero sort of took some of the thrill out of it, i wound up up with a TC contender with a slew full of barrels with dedicated scopes and mounts. Worked really well and was much cheaper than setting up the switch barrel 700 My brother tried the Encore route; neither of us cared for it and he sold it as a 3-barrel set. I already run one or two optics between all my guns (I can afford much higher quality optics when I only own one or two) and have data cards that allow me to adjust back to zero then confirm. It is like running multiple barreled actions out of one chassis or bedding block. You can get one stock to fit you perfectly with one optical set-up.
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Post by sgellis on Jan 24, 2015 6:54:07 GMT -5
Remington could have saved at least $100.00 per gun if they ordered the correct stock for it instead of a BDL stock.. The ADL would have made for a much cleaner rifle with out the floor plate.. I know they say it was designed to hold some extra priming cases but truth be known it was an ordering mistake on one of the engineers. I could get 10 cases out of my pocket faster than someone can get one out of this so-called storage compartment. Jeff.. I'm glad they didn't, it is rather handy. The composite stocked version is ugly as sin, so it wouldn't matter much aesthetically ADL vs BDL, but the laminate version is highly attractive and looks better with the floor plate. I prefer to keep my reloads organized together, be it in a pocket, pouch, bag, etc. But for the load in the rifle, and managing the ignition case for that load, such as when removed to make the rifle safe, I prefer to use the storage compartment to keep that casing with the rifle. So that casing takes up the first slot. I on occasion like to have a handy spare casing to blow out oil or water that has found its way into the breech plug. I prefer this spare casing to stay with the rifle as well, so it takes up the second slot. I for one prefer to dry fire on occasion, and this particular rifle is not friendly to dry firing, Remington suggests using a dummy casing. I have made a good functioning casing for dry firing which also works well to safely seal the breech on a loaded charge. Though you can dunk Blackhorn 209 into water, dry it out, and it will shoot like new, it only takes two droplets of moisture to make the charge sluggish. The fire channel is rather large on the new Remington, and it can easily leach moisture, so I prefer to keep my safety casing with the rifle in the third storage compartment slot to be readily available to seal the breech on a dry charge when the live ignition case needs to be removed when afield during inclement weather. So based on my experience with the laminate version, it would be uglier, heavier, and less handy if made using an ADL stock without the one-piece bottom metal and storage compartment. I'm glad Remington did not choose to save that $100.00 per gun. Best
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 24, 2015 9:01:01 GMT -5
We all have our wants... I'm happy that you like the compartment,, I for one am just not that organized/particular with my rifle.. Jeff..
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Post by miketodd58 on Jan 24, 2015 11:39:36 GMT -5
I had the hots for a switch barrel bolt gun many moons ago. Spent a big chunk of change on one too. Having to to switch out scopes or re zero sort of took some of the thrill out of it, i wound up up with a TC contender with a slew full of barrels with dedicated scopes and mounts. Worked really well and was much cheaper than setting up the switch barrel 700 My brother tried the Encore route; neither of us cared for it and he sold it as a 3-barrel set. I already run one or two optics between all my guns (I can afford much higher quality optics when I only own one or two) and have data cards that allow me to adjust back to zero then confirm. It is like running multiple barreled actions out of one chassis or bedding block. You can get one stock to fit you perfectly with one optical set-up. I don't have any direct experience with the Encore system but from what I have read its either love them or hate them. Other than being restricted to straight wall cartridges for the most part I loved the Contender series and have not heard near the complaints from Contender Owners as I have heard from Encore owners.
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Post by k80busa on Jan 25, 2015 20:10:26 GMT -5
I've received a good deal of advice, here and on another board, both in posts and in PMs, from many, who do not own this new rifle, with suggestions and warnings reference the new Remington barrel, rifling, the Remington made breech plug, and their ignition system. Though I've yet to see any issue with my particular rifle reference these warnings, I decided to explore some of these suggestions to determine there feasibility as options in the event I ran into such problems, as warned, with my rifle. I've been given a few references to contact, one of whom I already knew, so I called and explored those options. To quote Bob (Parker), the reports I've received contain "both fact and fiction". This is where I stand, and I would suggest others to explore for themselves to determine such personal favorites and choices. First, building a smokeless muzzleloader. I have two mutual aquantances with Bob, a custom smokeless rifle builder I've known for over a quarter century, and the man who shoots for the builder and hunts with his custom built rifle. Though many are making extremely accurate smokeless muzzleloaders, I cannot imagine any that could produce the long string of tiny groups shot at 500 yards and game animal kills at much further distances as this particular smokeless rifle. It is most definitely top shelf, and would likely be my choice if I went that route. But, I have zero interest in hunting with a smokeless muzzleloader, and due to current legalities, it would be a no-no. Black Powder (the real deal), Replicates of Black Powder (Pyrodex or 777), or Non-Replicate Substitutes (Blackhorn 209), would be mandatory. Second, converting a smoker to smokeless. As much as the above, built from the ground up, custom smokeless muzzleloader is liked, if wanting a conversion made, Hankin gets the vote. I received a good deal of positive feedback on the Hankin barrel/breech plug conversion. Bob (Parker) had Hankin convert a T/C Pro Hunter and is pleased. But again, I have no interest in smokeless. Third, the factory Remington Ultimate 50cal using Blackhorn 209. Most of my feedback in this area came from a personal friend, who shoots and hunts with his rifle using the Blackhorn, my own personal rifle, and Bob (Parker). The remaining feedback are from those I do not know from Adam, but they actually own and shoot the rifle. I believe Bob put it best, calling it "the most user friendly muzzleloader" he has shot. No issues with the new Remington breech plug and ignition, and pretty much nothing but positive feedback on the rifle and its performance. Trying to pin down differences between the old Johnston breech plug design, and the new Remington design, it appears to have improvements over and above that of just the steel used. The threads are finer, stronger, more protected, and resist erosion, to eliminate those issues experienced with the Johnston breech plug. The new design will break loose from full 100 in/lb torque with approximately only 80 in/lb applied torque, making it very user friendly. It does not experience the removal issues of the Johnston plug, stripped threads, rounded off nipples, etc. In addition, the sealing of the ignition case appears fairly good and uniform for the case life as recommended by Remington. I realize some are reporting second or third hand that someone else is seeing only one re-prime before failure, but, I've been unable to confirm this first hand. I may attempt a test, by repeatedly chambering a new case a half dozen times or so, and then fire the case. So it always possible that an excited new owner is wearing out a new case before firing the rifle the first time. But, I'm just not seeing this occur on my end, the rifle just plain works. As far as a drop-in Hankin plug to leave it 50cal sub powders with his module system, that animal does not appear to exist. If it did, there is no data to support it is capable of duplicating the ignition performance of the Remington ignition, by burning such a large volume of power within the barrel. All previous attempts using various modules and plugs had failed, hence the industry debate over the reality of burning 200 grains 777 pellets. It seems pretty clear that it is now proven with the new Remington plug, so that point is moot in my book. End results, feedback I have received from end users of this rifle have me leaning toward staying on my current track with the factory plug and ignition system. All the warnings I've received reference the barrel, rifling, breech plug, ignition cases, and running Blackhorn 209 seem to fall into Bob's category of fiction, and not fact. Absent any normal production line hiccups with assembly, it appears to be a well thought out and well executed production rifle that works. Best
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Post by k80busa on Jan 25, 2015 20:13:41 GMT -5
I was just wundering when someone is going to post about shooting smokeless powder in this ultimate muzzleloader? ?
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