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Post by dave d. on Jan 16, 2009 17:10:50 GMT -5
:)well i heard from casey today at pac-nor and it looks like the best sabot fit for the .50 is the .50(.510) like i originally thought.so anyone wanting a pac-nor .50 here are the twists:
8 groove- 9&14
6 groove- 18&20
i think anyone of these twist besides the 9 would work great but this is uncharted territiory so you will need to make the call.moderators i can't change the post on the dd barrels could you fix the .50 info or unlock it for me to fix thank's.
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Post by tar12 on Jan 16, 2009 18:43:32 GMT -5
:)well i heard from casey today at pac-nor and it looks like the best sabot fit for the .50 is the .50(.510) like i originally thought.so anyone wanting a pac-nor .50 here are the twists: 8 groove- 9&14 6 groove- 18&20 I think anyone of these twist besides the 9 would work great but this is uncharted territiory so you will need to make the call.moderators i can't change the post on the dd barrels could you fix the .50 info or unlock it for me to fix thank's. Dave do you know what combos they tried to base this on? And does anybody know the what the avg.Sav. measures? |
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Post by dave d. on Jan 16, 2009 19:24:42 GMT -5
:)rick,300xtp and mmp 12's and 24's.if you go to the old forum and look at the dd barrel thread i believe richard posted what his savage barrel was.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 16, 2009 20:15:27 GMT -5
With a 1:9 twist I could shoot 750 gr bullets......maybe at 2,600 fps.  Seriously, this may be an awesome option for those of us that do not mind the .50. Sabotless potential and almost limitless saboted combo's. Only downfall would be recoil for some. In picking a twist off the top of my head I would look at some .45 high power centerfires....458 Win mag for one....and see what is common for shooting 350-500 gr bullets. Looks like 1:14 is normal. Any lighter bullet would obviously be OK with that twist. I may be more tempted for this option then a .45. A great shooting .50 is quite flexible. Check out what Edge does...or has done...with his. Hmmmmm. If you guys all throw 5 bucks into a hat and come up with the money, I'll wring one out. ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the info Dave! |
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Post by DBinNY on Jan 16, 2009 20:42:51 GMT -5
You're the man Wilms. I knew we could count on you. When the state stocks Cape Buffalo south of Rochester they won't stand a chance. Are you going to hunt out of the phone booth or come out just before you shoot? Don't worry, they are color blind and won't be able to see the cape or that big "S" on your chest. You can count me in for $5.
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Post by ET on Jan 16, 2009 20:43:57 GMT -5
Dave
From my perspective a 20 or 22 twist for a 50cal would be a good choice. But I would prefer an 8-groove bore.
My reasoning for an 8-grove is the ability to place 2-lands on each sabot petal that would aid in keeping a sabot load more center supported to the bore. Also an 8-grove bore would produce better load resistance with the extra bearing surface contact.
Just my opinion and thoughts being expressed here should I ever decide to purchase an after market 50 barrel.
Ed
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Post by dans on Jan 16, 2009 21:10:12 GMT -5
Yikes should I get the 20 twist 6 groove or the 14 twist 8 groove? What about the 18 twist 6 groove? Am not planning to shoot sabotless so probably 300 grain bullets are the limit and am leaning toward 250s however that 290 Barnes with the plastic tip would be a great long range bullet. Gosh this is tough! Can anybody shed some more light on the subject? All of the above comments seem logical. Now I am more confused. Help!
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Post by dave d. on Jan 16, 2009 21:42:57 GMT -5
:)dan i just got off the phone with jeff and after about 20 minutes of talking to him he is ordering a 20 twist.as far as the 6 grooves go for the longest time i never indexed and shot amazing groups so i don't think that 6 grooves will cause a problem.goodluck
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Post by Richard on Jan 16, 2009 21:52:20 GMT -5
Dave d...........When I Cerrosafe cast my bores, I got .506 and .511"
Richard
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Post by sw on Jan 16, 2009 22:04:20 GMT -5
Concerning twist rate and concerns about over-taxing the sabot, some of us have shot to over 2800'/sec accurately in the 22 twist 45 PacNor. The 45/40 Harvester sabot is tough but maybe about the same as the better 50/45 sabots. If we can shoot 2800+ in the 45 with 22 twist, then 18-20 with 2500-2600 shouldn't put any more strain on the sabot. The faster the twist, the less load critical the gun will be and that includes velocity changes with the same load due to temp changes.
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Post by Dave W on Jan 16, 2009 22:35:59 GMT -5
You're the man Wilms. I knew we could count on you. When the state stocks Cape Buffalo south of Rochester they won't stand a chance. Are you going to hunt out of the phone booth or come out just before you shoot? Don't worry, they are color blind and won't be able to see the cape or that big "S" on your chest. You can count me in for $5. ;D ;D ;D You crack me up. |
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Post by tar12 on Jan 16, 2009 23:07:37 GMT -5
Dave d...........When I Cerrosafe cast my bores, I got .506 and .511" Richard Did you happen to run any .458s through any of them? ;D You shot so many things in such a short time span I could not keep up with you! |
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Post by tar12 on Jan 16, 2009 23:08:39 GMT -5
Concerning twist rate and concerns about over-taxing the sabot, some of us have shot to over 2800'/sec accurately in the 22 twist 45 PacNor. The 45/40 Harvester sabot is tough but maybe about the same as the better 50/45 sabots. If we can shoot 2800+ in the 45 with 22 twist, then 18-20 with 2500-2600 shouldn't put any more strain on the sabot. The faster the twist, the less load critical the gun will be and that includes velocity changes with the same load due to temp changes. Thanks for your insight. |
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Post by tar12 on Jan 16, 2009 23:10:06 GMT -5
Yikes should I get the 20 twist 6 groove or the 14 twist 8 groove? What about the 18 twist 6 groove? Am not planning to shoot sabotless so probably 300 grain bullets are the limit and am leaning toward 250s however that 290 Barnes with the plastic tip would be a great long range bullet. Gosh this is tough! Can anybody shed some more light on the subject? All of the above comments seem logical. Now I am more confused. Help! Same here! |
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Post by dans on Jan 17, 2009 0:01:23 GMT -5
I know the stock Savage has a 1in24 twist and seems to handle the 250 to 300 grain bullets very well. I am leaning toward the 6 groove 1 in 20 twist myself as this is closest to the Savage. However sw makes some good points for a faster twist. I have SMI 50 cal barrels with a 1 in 36 twist and they shoot 300 grain bullets very well so a 20 twist would be much faster. How about barrel length? The 25 inch barrel seems to be a good balance between weight and velocity. Now that .510 dimension does it refer to groove to groove or land to land? I thought it was groove to groove and if so what is the land to land dimension?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 17, 2009 7:44:03 GMT -5
Anyone know if the .50 barrels are priced like to .45's?
(If I ever go to this I would ship everything to RB and have him put it together. If possible I would have him also work a sabotless load up for me. (Heck, he did it for Bigmoose!) The Barnes 375 gr .50 cal XBP at 2,500 fps. No lead sleds allowed. Somehow I get the feeling he wouldn't want to do the latter part. ;D ;D)
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Post by dave d. on Jan 17, 2009 9:02:09 GMT -5
I know the stock Savage has a 1in24 twist and seems to handle the 250 to 300 grain bullets very well. I am leaning toward the 6 groove 1 in 20 twist myself as this is closest to the Savage. However sw makes some good points for a faster twist. I have SMI 50 cal barrels with a 1 in 36 twist and they shoot 300 grain bullets very well so a 20 twist would be much faster. How about barrel length? The 25 inch barrel seems to be a good balance between weight and velocity. Now that .510 dimension does it refer to groove to groove or land to land? I thought it was groove to groove and if so what is the land to land dimension? :)dan i think the 20 would be a very good choice.the land to land dimension is .500 and groove to groove .510. |
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Post by sw on Jan 17, 2009 9:35:17 GMT -5
I've had a 45 PacNor barrel'd ML-2 that has an oversized barrel from day one - never could get it to shoot well while EVERYONE elses shot great! I spent countless range hours of frustration. Then when I found that 452 bullets fell straight thru the bore and others barrels were all <450, I knew I had a problem. The bore was actually appx 4535. I have to really knurl a 300XTP to get it to shoot and a 300SST even more knurling. I still don't have a particularily good load for the 300SSTs but am getting closer. This barrel problem cost me days(weeks) of fruitless work, money and frustration which went on for over a year while everyone else was doing so well with their 45s. I did learn a few things though. The most impt to me is that flinch will really start if you consistently shoot a very high recoiling rifle. High recoil stresses the scope/mounting system. Recommendation: for those of you with either a 45 or 50 and plan on shooting heavier bullets at high velocities - reduce recoil to practical levels. A well designed stock, well bedded stock, great recoil pad, 1 or 2 Hg recoil reducers in the stock, and possibly a muzzle brake(if shooting only sabotless). I have all this except the muzzle brake on this oversized 45 PacNor and it helps considerably. If I were starting again I'd do things differently. Who wouldn't?  I would have a really stripped down, very light wt, 24" barreled/tapered, 40 cal with a 32 MM 2.5X10 Nightforce. Then I'd have a 40 cal 26" std barreled, with a good heavier stock with 2 of the larger Benelli Hg recoil reducers, Simms pad, SSS muzzle brake, 3.5X15 50 mm MD Nightforce for my beanfield rifle. 2 guns: 2 missions. That's a ton of money and this is all "IF" stuff. Many on this board have "invested" more than this, all together. Hindsight is so good!  |
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Post by dans on Jan 17, 2009 9:57:57 GMT -5
All too true sw but getting there is half the fun.
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Post by Al on Jan 18, 2009 8:59:17 GMT -5
:)well i heard from casey today at pac-nor and it looks like the best sabot fit for the .50 is the .50(.510) like i originally thought.so anyone wanting a pac-nor .50 here are the twists: 8 groove- 9&14 6 groove- 18&20 i think anyone of these twist besides the 9 would work great but this is uncharted territiory so you will need to make the call.moderators i can't change the post on the dd barrels could you fix the .50 info or unlock it for me to fix thank's. **************************************************** Dave, looking at Pac-nors site this morning, they list a 50BMG with different grooves and twist. 50 (.510") 6 groove 18" 20" 8 groove 9" 14" 50 BMG (.510") 3 groove 15" 26" 38" 8 groove 10" 14" 15" 20" Polygonal 15" any idea what's the difference between the two .510's are?? |
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Post by dave d. on Jan 18, 2009 10:55:02 GMT -5
:)al,that is a good question.i will find out.
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Post by deadeye on Jan 18, 2009 12:46:41 GMT -5
probably 750 gn bullets vs. 300gn
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Post by dave d. on Jan 18, 2009 15:05:21 GMT -5
Anyone know if the .50 barrels are priced like to .45's? (If I ever go to this I would ship everything to RB and have him put it together. If possible I would have him also work a sabotless load up for me. (Heck, he did it for Bigmoose!) The Barnes 375 gr .50 cal XBP at 2,500 fps. No lead sleds allowed. Somehow I get the feeling he wouldn't want to do the latter part. ;D ;D) :)wilms sorry i missed your post yes they are the same price. |
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Post by screwbolts on Jan 19, 2009 14:00:54 GMT -5
:)al,that is a good question.i will find out. I believe you will find that the 50bmg Blanks are larger in diameter than the 50 for MZs. Both of my 50bmgs have 1.5" threaded shanks. Both are also made using a similar barrel nut arrangement as Savage uses. Ken Central NY |
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Post by dave d. on Jan 19, 2009 17:29:48 GMT -5
:)al,that is a good question.i will find out. I believe you will find that the 50bmg Blanks are larger in diameter than the 50 for MZs. Both of my 50bmgs have 1.5" threaded shanks. Both are also made using a similar barrel nut arrangement as Savage uses. Ken Central NY :)i talked to pac-nor today and ken you are exactly right.the 50bmg is not a vioble option for the .50 conversion. |
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I would have a really stripped down, very light wt, 24" barreled/tapered, 40 cal with a 32 MM 2.5X10 Nightforce. Then I'd have a 40 cal 26" std barreled, with a good heavier stock with 2 of the larger Benelli Hg recoil reducers, Simms pad, SSS muzzle brake, 3.5X15 50 mm MD Nightforce for my beanfield rifle. 2 guns: 2 missions. That's a ton of money and this is all "IF" stuff. Many on this board have "invested" more than this, all together. Hindsight is so good! 
