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Post by nightforce20 on Aug 14, 2011 22:30:07 GMT -5
i recently purchased some of hodgdens hornady superformance smokeless powder. However there is very few load specifications. Even in the new 8th edition of hornady's reloading manual there are very little tests with this powder. hodgdens website is the same way. Anyone know of any websites or manuals with the specs? thanks
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Post by mike3132 on Aug 15, 2011 9:19:49 GMT -5
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Post by stevewv on Aug 15, 2011 10:48:21 GMT -5
i recently purchased some of hodgdens hornady superformance smokeless powder. However there is very few load specifications. Even in the new 8th edition of hornady's reloading manual there are very little tests with this powder. hodgdens website is the same way. Anyone know of any websites or manuals with the specs? thanks Nightforce, I have Hodgdon's Annual reloading manual. It has the following calibers listed w/Superformance: 22-250 Rem, 243 Win, 243 WSSM, 25 WSSM, 300 RCM, & 300 WSM. |
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Post by mountainam on Aug 15, 2011 10:48:54 GMT -5
Nightforce, Mike set you on the right path, It shows up on their website for certain calibers. It looks like it's a spherical equivalent to H4831. They got rid of H450 years ago and I called and askes them why. They said it outlived it's usefulness. I swear the new WW 780Supreme is just a new batch of the old H450 and perhaps so is Superformance since Hodgdon owns both companies. If not, they are as close as they get as far as burn rates. I've not yet tried Superformance but I love the new WW 780 Supreme.
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 15, 2011 13:02:50 GMT -5
You have to realize that all ball powders made in the USA are made at the same plant, St Marks in Florida. Winchester built and owned the plant under the name of Primex till they sold the plant to General Dynamics in like 2004 or 5 which pretty much killed the Winchester line until Hodgdon made the licensing deal for the Winchester powder name in 2006. St Marks makes 95% of the powder used in the US military small arms and is exported to 12 countries for military apps. They still produce for ammo manufacturers and for reloading lines. A lot of the Winchester powders were just mil-spec powders but they also have a lot of recipes for the Winchester ammo line and other customers. General Dynamics is improving the powders and that maybe is why you see different numbers.
Hodgdon, Accurate, Western, Ramshot and even IMR do not make their own powders. Alliant makes most of theirs but still some comes from other manufacturers.
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Post by 500cadillac on Aug 15, 2011 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 16, 2011 11:16:19 GMT -5
Don't believe the PR speak which leads you to believe, while somewhat correct it is not the whole story.
DuPonts largest smokeless powder facility after WWII was the Carney Point mill where the IMR line was made but after a large fire in 1978 DuPont closed it. DuPont contracted with the Valleyfield Chemical Products in Quebec which basicly was the Canadian owned Canadian Industries LTD to produce the IMR powder line. The Valleyfield facility was built during WWII by DuPont. In 1982 Valleyfield was sold to Welland Chemical which became EXPRO. DuPont backing away from the powder business sold EXPRO the IMR trademark. The IMR Powder Company was then established as the marketing side of EXPRO. EXPRO was then sold to a French company SME (SNPE Materiaux Energetiques). Then General Dynamics bought the Valleyfield facility in 2001 which kinda left IMR hanging in the breeze till Hodgden stepped in to buy it in 2003.
In North America there is only 3 smokeless powder plants left. Alliant/ATK is made at the Radford, VA Army Munition facility which was ran by ATK but is now operated BAE. General Dynamics owns the Valleyfield and St Marks facilities. The real kicker is that the main ingredient for all three plants, nitrocellulose, is only made in one place, Radford, VA.
Smokeless powder plants are few and far between and just the country of manufacture will tell you who made it.
Australia, Australian Defense Industries, now owned by Thales.
Sweden, Bofors, not the Bofors owned by BAE but by SAAB
Finland, Vihtavuori
Belgium, PB Clermont plant owned by SME
France, Both the Sorques and Bergerac plants are owned by SME
Switzerland, Nitrochemie, owned by Rheinmetall
South Africa, Formally Armscor now Rheinmetall Denel Munition (Pty) Ltd (with Rheinmetall owning 51%)
Israel, Israel Military Industries (plant was built with the help of Olin/Winchester)
Hungary, Supposedly now owned by Nitrochemie/Rheinmetal
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Post by boarhog on Aug 16, 2011 19:01:02 GMT -5
Chapter and verse!!
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 16, 2011 23:06:45 GMT -5
I left out Explosia A.S. in the Czech Republic (the same good people who brought the world Semtex). Accurate did get some powder from them in the past.
Another possible major player in the future is Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos (CBC) in Brazil. Known to us as Magtech ammo. They have been on a recent buying spree and bought up The German ammo maker MEN and Sellier & Bellot in the Czech Republic which gives them a pretty good foothold in Europe.
When the ammo/powder/primer shortage hit I thought for sure PMC (with it's Korean ties) and/or Wolf (with Russian ties) would jump into the US reloading component market hard but they didin't.
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Post by nightforce20 on Aug 17, 2011 17:06:36 GMT -5
i have several reloading manuals. I mainly wanted powder charges for the 204 ruger and the 223 remington
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Post by stevewv on Aug 18, 2011 11:21:54 GMT -5
i have several reloading manuals. I mainly wanted powder charges for the 204 ruger and the 223 remington Neither of those calibers are listed with Superformance. |
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 19, 2011 9:23:13 GMT -5
Nightforce,, is the powder just a single powder or the mix that Hornady was loading in their ammo?
By Hornady's own admission the powder for their super performance ammo line was blended (duplex/triplex) which allowed them to tailor the mix for each load to get maximum performance.
I have a hunch that it is more likely one of the newer powder formulations from St Marks and it is a marketing ploy. The powder gives simuler performance to the blend in just a few loads.
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Post by 500cadillac on Aug 19, 2011 21:36:53 GMT -5
Ross: It is a single powder. I think your hunch is right.
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 23, 2011 12:38:47 GMT -5
St Marks/General Dynamics came out with their next generation of ball powders which the military hasn't quite signed off on yet. The main problem they tackled was while most mil-spec powders were good to 120°, over that they degraded quickly. In the middle east temps could hit over 120° if the ammo was left in the sun. Of course better performance is always a good selling point.
Alliant jumped on the bandwagon and is selling them as their new "Power Pro" line. In the old days Alliant/ATK vs General Dynamics was like Ford vs GM and I doubted they would ever co-operate. But since they have had to work togather on numorous projects for the DoD and I think they learned to team up.
I wouldn't doubt that the Hodgden/Hornady powders are from the same SMP (St Marks Powders) line.
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