.45 Caliber Bullet Question

[kiddynomite]

Can someone tell me if you can purchase the following bullets in a 100 count box and if so please tell me where and part number if possible. Thanks Kid...

195 Barnes

200 SST

[Deleted]

The Barnes comes in 75 bulk pack last time I looked at their website.
When I emailed Hornady they said they have no intention of selling the 200gr SST seperately.

[deadon]

Jul 9, 2011 1:25:13 GMT -5 kiddynomite said:

Can someone tell me if you can purchase the following bullets in a 100 count box and if so please tell me where and part number if possible. Thanks Kid...

195 Barnes

200 SST

Kid, Make sure you ask for the new flat base bullet, Rusty

[deadeye]

assuming .40 bullet shot saboted in .45

barnes 195 mz fb part #40052b--call barnes direct
hornady .40 200sst ho #67132 bullets not sold seperately(natchez-$11.28 per 20)

www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=HO67132&CFID=37363189&CFTOKEN=53453585

[kiddynomite]

Thanks for the information. Which would you say is better for deer hunting cause that is what it will be used for. Thanks Kid...

[deadon]

Jul 9, 2011 12:42:22 GMT -5 kiddynomite said:

Thanks for the information. Which would you say is better for deer hunting cause that is what it will be used for. Thanks Kid...

I would try them both and see which one shoots better. The SSTs will fragment at the velocities we shoot. The Barnes holds together. To me bullet placement is everything and the sst shoots better so I aim for the head. Only problem is that there is no place to tie the rope

[Richard]

Just ask SW, a very long time member on this forum, how well he like the SST's. Don't be fooled by one members opinion about how said bullets react! There are many variables which have a lot to do with how bullets react. These low BC bullets loose velocity very rapidly so what its doing at the muzzle is no where near what its doing 100, 200 and 300 yards down the road. Its the impact velocity that may or may not cause the bullet to somewhat come apart. Rest assured that a well placed SST is going to anchor your deer. There is no doubt that the Barnes is a good bullet but I would not give up deer hunting if I could not get the Barnes. The SST is also a flatter shooting bullet if you will be hunting at longer ranges.
Richard

[Deleted]

the ssts are a good deer getter in the .40 cal, however the .45 cal 250 grn is another story.the 300 grn .45 is also a pretty good bullet.

I really like barnes bullets and load them exclusively in my centerfires but in the smokeless world I stick to the cheaper bullet. the sst is a good paper puncher and also does well on deer. I have shot them as close as 30 yds (last season) and as far as 356 yds (last season) and they did well at both extremes. Is the barnes a better deer bullet? Yes without question but its also pretty expensive and as Rich said the sst has the edge at distance....Bill

[deadon]

Jul 9, 2011 18:23:18 GMT -5 Richard said:

Just ask SW a very long time member on this forum how well he like the SST's. Don't be fooled by one members opinion about how said bullets react! There are many variables which have a lot to do with how bullets react. These low BC bullets loose velocity very rapidly so what its doing at the muzzle is no where near what its doing 100, 200 and 300 yards down the road. Its the impact velocity that may or may not cause the bullet to somewhat come apart. Rest assured that a well placed SST is going to anchor your deer. There is no doubt that the Barnes is a good bullet but I would not give up deer hunting if I could not get the Barnes. The SST is also a flatter shooting bullet if you will be hunting at longer ranges.
Richard

Very well said Richard.

[dans]

I use Barnes bullets exclusively in my muzzleloaders both 50 and 45. They have performed exactly as i expect a hunting bullet to perform. I have only recovered one Barnes bullet in 50+ head of game and that was from a 5X5 bull elk after nearly 3 feet of penetration. It was just under the skin on the far side. I cannot say the same for the SSTs. When they first came out my sons and I shot 8 deer with them (250 grains) and every one fragged. The deer were killed but there were no exits. We were shooting 42 grains of VVN-110 so muzzle velocity was around 2300. The farthest was 110 yards or so. I also shot a 150 lb. boar at a little over 150 yards with the same result, entry hole very little blood, no exit, both lungs were destroyed and the pig was retrieved from the bottom of a pond in 8 feet of water. I found pieces of the jacket and the tip when he was field dressed. They will kill but my preference is a bullet that leaves two holes. I practice with the SST's and Hornady XTPs and hunt with the Barnes. I can only speak about the 250 grainers NOT the .40 cal. 200s.

[Deleted]

as I said, the 250s are questionable, well known to frag, not so with the 200s and 300s. for the avg hunter they are good bullets. the barnes, all of them, 195s- tezs-expanders are killer bullets. my point is, there are other alternatives for the hunter....

[lwh723]

I guess I'm the "one member" that doesn't care for the 200 SST as a deer bullet. Maybe on little southern deer but I have no confidence that an SST will get it done on a hard angle shot on a big Iowa buck. Sure, it'll probably kill the deer, just be ready for a long tracking job with little blood because you're not getting a pass through.

In my opinion, if accuracy between the two is even close to comparable, the Barnes wins hands down. (I will caveat that with the thought that if all of my shots were going to be 150 yards +, then I would probably be ok with the SST.)

My $.02.

[tar12]

There are indeed many variables.Punching paper does not tell the tale so beware of the paper deer killers..The SST will more than somewhat come apart..they will frag beyond belief at realatively close ranges..the ranges in which MOST deer are killed...a 100 yds or less..even the die hard SST fans will admit that...better yet have the SST fans show their recovered bullets...deer have been lost as well and tracking jobs have ensued.Did the SST kill deer?...yes...but not anywhere as efficiently as the Barnes does.You can argue shot placement..this is true of any bullet but even more so with the fragging SST or XTP or any thinly skinned bullet.It may be a effective deer killer @2-300 yds but I will never find out as it does not cover all of the bases from point blank to 300 yds.No tracking involved at any angle at any range up to and including 306 yds on the 9 I killed last year with the 195. Always 2 holes and even the 2 over 300 yds died with in 15 yds.Hard to argue the advatages of the Barnes bullets...

[dave d.]

ditto what iwh and Rick said (he typed faster then me ;D). If your shots are going to be 100ytd plus then either bullet will do the job well but the Barnes is a 2 hole bullet at any range and that's what I perfer. I will not hunt with the sst for the Barnes in my guns are super accurate and are great on game period. Goodluck you are going to love your new .45 sml toy.

[mike3132]

I punch paper with XTP, SST or SW but for deer hunting Barnes is all I use. Hole in and hole out equals easy blood trailing if any and a dead deer plus I dont have to throw away a lot of damaged meat.

Last deer I shot in 2010 was a doe about 80 yards that left a hole the size of a softball clear threw the deer. Barnes are expensive as far as bullets go but add up all the cost of hunting equipment and $1.00 for a deer of a lifetime is cheap.

Besides Ive not seen a deer yet that can tell the difference between 2" groups @ 200 yards and 4" groups. When hunting everyone use the bullet you think works best for you but make mine a Barnes! Mike

[Savage Shooter]

Jul 10, 2011 12:03:16 GMT -5 mike3132 said:

Besides Ive not seen a deer yet that can tell the difference between 2" groups @ 200 yards and 4" groups. When hunting everyone use the bullet you think works best for you but make mine a Barnes! Mike

Yeah, what he said!!

[Richard]

Well...........as a "paper deer killer" ;D Your right! I have no back round with any of these bullets in the hunting world. Yes, I have successfully used the Barnes in my LR hunting pistol to anchor a 220 yard speed goat in Montana But no SML kills . I was kind of hoping SW and Herman would chime in since I know those two have used them successfully to take numerous deer. There is however, nothing wrong with the theory that a bullet that does not exit...........delivers all its energy inside the critter? And I have heard both sides of this argued on this forum before ;D
Richard

[wilmsmeyer]

There are some stout SST fans out there that can never be converted....because they kill everything they shoot at.

My group probably kills as many deer as a group our size could. I have seen several dozen deer killed with SST's....200,250 and 300's.

None were lost. I have seen huge holes in deer, some on the "on" side. I will say that with the 300's, we have a bullet here that almost always exits and one I would use if I had to resort to an SST.

I don't like them for hunting. My opinion.


I'm not sure how the Barnes can be beat. I probably have killed over 50 deer with various types, styles before I started playing with .458 300+ grain bullets. I was looking for a way to best the 4-5" groups I was getting at 200 yds.....which I have done. Still, my longest Savage kill to date is 150.....so what have I gained? nothing yet.

[edge]

Hmmmm....

OK, if I know my deer will be shot at 100 yards or less why do I need a bullet designed for long range, and why would I shoot it?

Long range hunters shoot very high BC bullets that are generally fragile in nature because they impact at relatively low velocity.

Short range hunters generally want a low BC bullet that will expand rapidly but retain mass.

Long range bullets tend to fragment at close range and close range bullets tend to pencil through at long range.
If you load for long range and a close range shot shows up then choose your shot carefully.

edge.

[jims]

Our group has never lost a deer with any of the SSTs and we have shot them in .40 sabotless and 250 and 300s in the .50. We have never had to track more than 50 yards, usually less. All shots were under 155 yards. Some of those were big bodied, grain fed Ohio deer.
That being said, I have heard so many good things about the Barnes that I have some for the 50, 45 and 40 sabotless. I will try some this fall at the range and if all goes well this deer season. Maybe I will be a convert too.

[sw]

I think the main problem with the 200 and 300 SST/SW bullets is people's experiences with the 250SST. My son and I have killed over 40 deer with these 3 bullets and he has lost 2 deer to shoulder hits with the 250SST. The other 2 bullets have been great. Incidentally, his last deer shot at appx 55 yds with a 200SST and I think appx 2700'/sec mv has finally been officially rescored by 3 B&C official scorers as 169 7/8". Picture will be posted shortly. I only have I-pad and can't post pictures. I'll send the picture to someone and possibly they can post it. Oh yes, he also killed a 140+" deer less than 5 min before with the same load/gun. He was pushing the bullet down the barrel when the larger deer came up. The 200SST is primarily what I use, a longer range bullet and is more accurate for me. The Barnes is a better terminal performer, IMO. I will still use the 200 for most of my MLer hunting.

[rangeball]

sw, send the pic my way and I'll be happy to post it for you.

[Deleted]

I would like to see that smokeless deer also. Sounds like a monster congrats to your son SW.

[boarhog]

Well, I don't claim to be an expert, but I have harvested several hundred head of deer and hogs over the years. Bullets used have been from almost every major manufacturer, with very few wounded and lost animals, but I have gradually switched to Barnes X types for hunting in all but 3 rifles. Those being 30-30, 44 mag., and 50 cal ML. ( I use 300 gr Barnes Original in the 50) I've never recovered a Barnes X, and I don't want to. Richard is right about some hunters wanting a bullet to shed all of it's energy in the animal, but I am a died in the wool member of the "holes-on-both-sides school". With Barnes, I don't have to worry about bullet performance.
Boarhog

[spaniel]

Jul 11, 2011 7:48:59 GMT -5 edge said:

Hmmmm....

OK, if I know my deer will be shot at 100 yards or less why do I need a bullet designed for long range, and why would I shoot it?

Long range hunters shoot very high BC bullets that are generally fragile in nature because they impact at relatively low velocity.

Short range hunters generally want a low BC bullet that will expand rapidly but retain mass.

Long range bullets tend to fragment at close range and close range bullets tend to pencil through at long range.
If you load for long range and a close range shot shows up then choose your shot carefully.

edge.

I'm about as confirmed of an SST fan as they come. I have shot dozens of animals across the entire reasonable velocity range, from 2600+ fps impact velocity with smokeless to probably just under 1000 fps with subs (338 yds). So several things I will say about them:
-- When you say "SST" the weight MATTERS. The 200gr and 300gr bullets are good. The 300gr bonded is a bit hard for whitetails (thought it may be good at smokeless velocities, have not tried it there). The 250gr bullet, as has been mentioned, is on the fragile side even for subs...at smokeless velocities it is asking for trouble!
-- The 200gr was designed for subs. It should come as no surprise that if you stoke it with one of our hot 2700+ fps loads then shoot a deer at 30 yards that it comes apart!! But it is about the best LR bullet we have available so I use it for that and am just more careful up close. In dozens of deer taken I have only had THREE 200SSTs fail to exit:
-- 200 yds with sub load, through both shoulders, jacket under far side skin, lead exited
-- 180 yds with sub load through both shoulders, jacket and lead just separated both under far side skin
-- Like 30-40 yds with 2770 fps smokeless load, shot low in the chest anticipating frag, complete and utter destruction inside the deer. Same load at 150 yds was no problem, 2 holes, dead deer.

If you want the LR performance you pay a bit on the close shots. If you want the close range reliability to stay together you will suffer in LR ability. If I were going to shoot smokeless and be content with shots out to 100-150 yds then there are PLENTY of bullets that will work and many of them better. If you care about 150+ yd capabilities the 200SST is on the short list.

[rangeball]

Jul 12, 2011 7:28:38 GMT -5 sw said:

I think the main problem with the 200 and 300 SST/SW bullets is people's experiences with the 250SST. My son and I have killed over 40 deer with these 3 bullets and he has lost 2 deer to shoulder hits with the 250SST. The other 2 bullets have been great. Incidentally, his last deer shot at appx 55 yds with a 200SST and I think appx 2700'/sec mv has finally been officially rescored by 3 B&C official scorers as 169 7/8". Picture will be posted shortly. I only have I-pad and can't post pictures. I'll send the picture to someone and possibly they can post it. Oh yes, he also killed a 140+" deer less than 5 min before with the same load/gun. He was pushing the bullet down the barrel when the larger deer came up. The 200SST is primarily what I use, a longer range bullet and is more accurate for me. The Barnes is a better terminal performer, IMO. I will still use the 200 for most of my MLer hunting.

Posting pics for sw-

[Deleted]

Very nice deer! ;D

If I am seeing the stock correctly thats one way to make the rig lighter. Looks great, laminated TH stocks are my favorite.

[sw]

Correction. That deer he killed just before the large deer isn't his 140+ gross deer: it's more like his 120- deer . The 140+ deer was the previous year. Must be my age creeping up on me.

[esshup]

I've used the .452" SST 250 grain bullet for all of my deer hunting, and have had very good results. BUT, my MV doesn't exceed 2300 fps, and since switching to a new jug of 4756, it's probably a lot lower. I was wondering why my bullet drop increased considerably...... But I digress.

Here's a picture of a 250g SST that was recovered just under the far side skin of a buck that I shot last year. The deer was right around 230 Yds when this hit the deer. It was a broadside shot, and the bullet went thru both lungs - no shoulder involved. One rib was hit on entry, none on the opposite side. The deer field dressed at 180#



Here's another pic of a deer that was 80 Yds away. All that I could see was half of it's chest, it's head and upper part of it's neck as it faced me, peeking around a large Oak Tree. Same bullet. It's legs folded up under it and it never twitched.


I shot another doe at 20 yds with the same gun/bullet combo about 1/2 hr before the neck shot one. She came in thru some brush, and stopped, looking directly at me. I had the gun on the shooting sticks and her in the scope when she stopped. I put the crosshairs at the base of her neck, center of chest and squeezed the trigger. She went straight down, legs folding under her too, never to twitch. I'm sure that bullet was in many, many little pieces at that distance, there were only a few small perforations in the diaphram when I field dressed her:


For the new .45 cal barrel that I ordered, I will see what bullet shoots the best, but I'll most likely be using the Barnes because of the velocity and uncertain impact distances. I want it to hold together on the closer shots. I know the SST won't together at the velocities that I'll be pushing them.