Elite 3200, best scope for UNDR $250?

[artjr338wm]

Just wondering as I just bought two NIB Bushnell Elites in 4-12x4mm mat W/AO for $240 EA including tax, is there a better scope to be had for the same or even less money? in 4-12x40mm W/AO?

I know I should have asked before I spent but these were the last two available and if I did not buy them the guys waiting would have.

Chose the Elite over the likes of Nikon and Leupold's cheaper models. Wish I could afford a nice Monarch or VX2 or 3 but with two kids in Pvt school $$ is tight.

I plan on putting one on my 10ML-ll to replace the 4.5-14x40 WGS, and the other will go in storage, or on my Marlin 512, or my Encore ML.

The last scope I bought was a 3-9x40 gloss VariX-ll on close out for $188.98 W/tax like 8-10yrs ago.

Purchase was totally spur of the moment and looking to avoid buyers remorse. Had given up on a super deal as NSS said no more 3200 Elites in 3-9x40mm for $139.99 would ever come in, so when this deal came up I grabbed it.

Thanks,
Arthur.

[jims]

They are very solid scopes. Enjoy them.

[Deleted]

I have one 3200 4-12AO DOA 600 on my Knight Elite .45 and love it. I liked it so much I got another one waiting to be mounted on my Rem 700ML smokeless. You may think I am crazy but I like the 3200 better then a VXIII 4.5-14 I had.

[hornet22savage]

45Omega sent me an article on riflescopes and the author was toteing his 4-12X40AO model 97D. Anyway good read and very interesting seems to push the low end scopes like Swift, Mueller and Pentax. All for under $200. I can't seem to get past the fact that even though the optics might be the same as a Nikon and the waranty is the same. I feel the physical quality might be lacking and that even though it warrantied for life it could fail and what if it fails on the shot of a lifetime. I'm saving my money for a Nikon Monarch 3-12X42SF which is the same a an AO. I'm not too sure of the quality of the Bushnell's of today but it should be a great scope many people tooting their horn theses days.

[rossman40]

The 3200 Elite is a great hunting scope for the money. I used one for several years and it is still my back-up scope for my 10ML. I think there was a lot of blurring of the product lines between the 3200 and the 4200 with some 3200s costing more then 4200s. It used to be the difference between the 3200 and 4200 was that the 4200 had better glass/coatings, 7075 aluminum instead of 6061 and less plastic internal components.

Swift went thru a bankruptcy a few years ago and is scrambling back and is mainly Korean made. But the same plant makes the Korean made binos and spotting scopes for Leupold.

Mueller is trying hard but didn't come out of the gate like Vortex has

Pentax has undergone some changes since 2006. With their favorite side kick Burris sold to Beretta and then the take over by Hoya has lead to a big change. Pentax is a license deal much like Nikon but in the Japanese way a license deal is much different then say with S&W or Winchester here in the states. The honor of the name means something. Pentax is trying hard and has matched the warranty of Vortex.

[Rifleman]

I am very impressed with the 3200 line. I have been in the process of replacing all the hunting rifle scopes down at the boys ranch with these.

[rossman40]

The thing with the 3200s is that some use saddle type construction for the turrents. This is kinda a carry over from the steel tube days. Modern epoxies roboticly applied cured the attachment and sealing problems associated with that design. The only problem is your stuck using a leaf spring for the erector tube (no problem there as a lot of big names still use that style). The Rainguard is a big plus.

To clarify more on my previous post. Swift went thru a bankruptcy in 2006 and as a result spun off the sports optics (binos, riflescopes) from the instrument side (telescopes and microscopes). Still Korean made but the lower end Reliant scopes I have been told are Chinese made. The Premier scopes are their bread and butter with pretty good glass but low eye relief. They have a new 30mm tube line that fixed a lot of the short comings on the earlier scopes but their price isn't the bargain the earlier Premiers were. Now the Korean plant these are assembled in is pretty top notch. They make some top notch binos (the Audubon series is probly their best known) and spotting scopes for Nikon, Leupold, Burris and others. If any sports optic says made in Korea it probly came from this plant.

Mueller came out as a decent low budget scope line but you run into the same problems as with any of the Chinese scopes, low eye relief, little adjustment but above price level glass and it seems above Chinese standard reliability (at least compared to other low priced Chinese made stuff like Tasco and the POS low end BSA and Millets). Another good thing is customer service, in the past it was pretty good so at least if you have a problem they will work with you.

With Pentax they had a close relationship with Burris. Supposedly they supplied Burris with glass which came from a company that both Pentax and Hoya dealt with. Burris got bought out by Beretta in 2002 so that kinda stressed the realtionship. Hoya is a stongarm in the optics world, maybe second only to Zeiss/Schott, so they "absorbed" the glass company and then tried a hostile takeover of Pentax in 2006. I think Pentax seen the writing on the wall and spun off the sports optics side. I was told it is a licensing deal where the original Pentax board members got a "golden parachute" that keeps giving and the sports optics division stayed somewhat a separate entity. Hoya completed the take over in 2007-2008 and pretty much closed the Pentax plants (camera/imaging) in Japan and moved their work to China, the Philippines and Vietnam. The Pentax Sports Optics line pretty much follows the Burris line with the Lightseekers following the Diamond line and made in the US by the same grandmas (supposedly the assembly line at Burris is mainly old ladies). The Gameseekers about the same as the Fullfields are made in the Philippines and the Pioneer IIs now made in China. The binos and spotting scopes, the high end stuff is Japanese and the low end comes from our buddies in Korea, or at least did.

[hornet22savage]

Man where do you find all of this information? It's like your an enclycopedia of the optics world. Good to know though, I'm finding it very interesting. Is there any scope out there that is 100% american made with american materials?

[rossman40]

That is what sucks, You have a lot of companies saying "Made in USA" but sorry, not so. The biggest fact is the glass isn't made in the US anymore. Swift likes to advertise "USA Made, BaK7 Schott Glass" but I was told by a Schott glass representative that Schott does not produce that glass at their plant in PA here in the states (and the glass is BK7, not Bak7), it is shipped in when ordered and not always from Germany. Nightforce and Trijicon claim "Made in USA" but are just assembled. The Zeiss Conquest and Minolta are assembled in New York in a plant ran by Meopta using probly 80% Meopta made parts. Leupold has stopped putting "Made in America" on there manuals. Burris supposedly is using foreign sub-assemblies. Even the highest of high end scopes like US Optics and Premier Reticle are not exempt.

But don't feel bad, high end German made Zeiss stuff has Japanese glass, not to mention parts from Meopta in the Czech Republic. Go buy you a Swarovski and you'll never pay more for Chinese glass/components, unless you buy a Leica. Schmidt & Bender may say made in Germany but most of the parts come from Hungary and some even from Japan.

You have to sort thru the intel. The best was when I had a lot of contact with sales reps. But as with most business, they will knock the other guys product pretty heavy. While you pick up some things from articles, trusting something from a guy that gets paid to write something is a waste. I just read Dave Fortier's article on Kruger and Hi-lux (Leatherwood) scopes and he is a sell-out or somebody called in all the favors and got down on their knees to beg for a good review. Another one was Craig Boddington's review of a Counter Sniper Optics scope in a issue of G&A a few years back I lost all respect for the man. The best places to dig up info is on user forums like this one, another good source for optic info is not shooters but bird watchers. They'll send a pair of binos or a spotting scope back in a heartbeat if it doesn't focus or even if the colors are not right.

[hornet22savage]

It's unfortunate that a lot of things are moving over seas these days. I have been trying realhard to keep all my mojor purchases here in the USA. Guess this is one thing I can't though oh well you win some and lose some.

[rossman40]

True, I too believe trying to buy US is important. But in todays global economy putting the almighty dollar first has gotten us in trouble. We no longer make certain things because it is/was cheaper to buy overseas.

It boils down to making a informed/educated choice by doing some research before major purchases. If you want to try something new and un-tested at least buy it from a retailer that you can return it to "no questions asked" like Sportsman's Guide and get your money back. I see guys line up all the time for NcStar and Leapers at the gunshow and it makes me wonder.

[hornet22savage]

When comparing scope lines within manufactures themselves its pretty easy, but when you exit to compare across manufactures is price point a good reflection in quality. Meaning that the scopes are close to being equal if the price is close. I personally favor Nikons but I'm having a hard time comparing them to Leupolds because Leupold has so many lines and it doesn't seems right that a VX-II is the same as a Monarch. I would place the Monarch's up against the VX-3's which run quite a but more price wise.

[rossman40]

That is the thing, getting the most for your money. It can vary between brands and models and then even from lot to lot in the same model. And then what is the job/conditions you expect it to do. A scope for a slug gun or rimfire that will never shoot over 100yds doesn't take much compared to a 600yd prairie dog rifle or a 1000yd bench rifle.

[hornet22savage]

I'm looking for a scope for my muzzleloader, that will be good for both deer and woodchucks. I have been looking at the Nikon Monarch 3X12-42SF. I figure that the 3 power is low enough for woods hunting on deer while the 12 power gets me out to 150 yds. on woodchucks. I'm also looking at the Nikon Buckmaster line in 4X12-50SF and 4.5X14-40SF, because they are cheaper. I feel the 50mm objective may be a little large though for a ML.

[Deleted]

I have a Leupold VXII 3-9x50 on my Green Mountain 54-120. You will need a set of high rings but that's no biggie. I really like it on my gun. The 50 objective will gather more light then the 40, atleast its suppose to.

[hornet22savage]

The need to use High rings does not bother me, in fact I have a set of Warne QD High rings the only thing is they are sliver. I ahve tried to sell them mulitple times and no hits at all.