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Post by huntrrr on Mar 2, 2009 7:07:26 GMT -5
I am looking over the Va. muzzleloading regulations and it appears that the minimum legal propellant amount is 50 gr. I guess this means that 45 gr. 5744 is unacceptable.
here is a copy of the regs.
Only muzzleloading firearms, .45 caliber or larger, loaded from the muzzle of the gun.
Muzzleloading firearms must be single shot, flintlock or percussion ignition, excluding muzzleloading pistols. Note: At its June 3, 2008 meeting, the Board of DGIF approved the use of electronic ignition for muzzleloaders.
Must be capable of firing only a single bullet or saboted bullet (.38 caliber or larger).
Unlawful to have in immediate possession any firearm other than a muzzleloading firearm while hunting with a muzzleloader (see exception for concealed handguns).
Unlawful to use muzzleloading pistols.
Must use at least 50 grains of black powder or black powder equivalent.
Smokeless powder is allowed in muzzleloading weapons designed for it. Never use smokeless powder of any type, in any quantity, in a muzzleloading firearm that is not specifically designed for it.
Scopes are permitted
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Post by smokeeter on Mar 2, 2009 7:21:37 GMT -5
I am looking over the Va. muzzleloading regulations and it appears that the minimum legal propellant amount is 50 gr. I guess this means that 45 gr. 5744 is unacceptable. here is a copy of the regs. Only muzzleloading firearms, .45 caliber or larger, loaded from the muzzle of the gun. Muzzleloading firearms must be single shot, flintlock or percussion ignition, excluding muzzleloading pistols. Note: At its June 3, 2008 meeting, the Board of DGIF approved the use of electronic ignition for muzzleloaders. Must be capable of firing only a single bullet or saboted bullet (.38 caliber or larger). Unlawful to have in immediate possession any firearm other than a muzzleloading firearm while hunting with a muzzleloader (see exception for concealed handguns). Unlawful to use muzzleloading pistols. Must use at least 50 grains of black powder or black powder equivalent. Smokeless powder is allowed in muzzleloading weapons designed for it. Never use smokeless powder of any type, in any quantity, in a muzzleloading firearm that is not specifically designed for it. Scopes are permitted I think you're ok with the smokeless,it's not a black powder or equiv. But if you think you need more go with 4198 powder and use 60-67 grains. |
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Post by sw on Mar 2, 2009 7:44:16 GMT -5
My take on the reading of this reg is that the "50gs of BP or BP eg" and the next sentence "Somkeless powder..." are separate, and the previous "50gs" doesn't apply to the smokeless powder provision.
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Post by whyohe on Mar 2, 2009 7:45:21 GMT -5
i agree with smokeeter, smokeless is NOT an equivalent. so IMO you would be ok with 45 grns of 5744. if you really want to be sure ask a game warden or call your game comission for clarification.
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Post by smitty on Mar 2, 2009 8:16:21 GMT -5
Huntrrr I'm also in VA and unfortunately many of our hunting regulations are not very clear. I'm 99.9% sure like the others have pointed out that the regulation is directed to black powder & their subs. If it'll give you peace of mind just email the VDGIF and they'll answer your question. Before I ordered my Pacnor barrel I questioned the "Must be capable of firing a single bullet or saboted bullet .38 caliber or larger" line since I wanted to get the 40 barrel but they stood behind the "must be 45 caliber or larger" reg.
smitty
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Post by bluedog on Mar 2, 2009 8:39:46 GMT -5
I'm in VA and have been using smokeless since it became legal....and all book smokeless loads are in fact LEGAL in VA....the written reg may be a bit confusing if read as if it compares smokeless directly to BP but that was not the intent......the intent was to establish a MINIMIM power level and ALL book smokeless loads exceed the power level of 50 grains of BP. You will have no problem with smokeless in VA.
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Post by dougedwards on Mar 2, 2009 11:05:00 GMT -5
I am also in Virginia and I can tell you that you can't call Richmond VDGIF or any other branch and get rational answers to questions concerning the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloaders. They are all ignorant of it. That being the case I wouldn't worry at all that some game warden is going to ask you to pull your breech plug and measure the powder. It's not going to happen. If it is a single shot rifle and you pour the powder down the muzzle it's a muzzleloader. That is all that they know and is all that they want to understand.
At one point I thought I would make it my job to educate these guys but I quickly realized that they really don't care to know any more than they already know about smokeless muzzleloading. Maybe they have too many other violations to worry about that aren't so vague and arbitrary. You will have absolutely no problem in the good ole commonwealth of Virginia shooting any volume of smokeless powder. Like Bluedog says.......I think that the legislators were trying to establish a minimum for black powder users. It is in consideration of the animal.
Doug
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Post by huntrrr on Mar 2, 2009 11:20:43 GMT -5
Thanks I appreciate the info. It is somewhat confusing so I'm glad to get that cleared up.
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Post by shoot2reload on Mar 2, 2009 12:35:34 GMT -5
Fellow Virginian here--the concern with the 50gr wording is purely power level, not "powder" level. Our 44gr is FAR beyond the minimum specs.
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Post by deerdhunter on Mar 2, 2009 18:42:25 GMT -5
. . . I wanted to get the 40 barrel but they stood behind the "must be 45 caliber or larger" reg.
smitty[/quote]
I am sorry to hear this. I also wanted to get the .40. I was hopeful that in smokeless they might not insist on it.
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Post by smitty on Mar 2, 2009 20:22:36 GMT -5
I understand Dougs frustration as I wasted my breath when I tried to explain that my smokeless 40 cal ML would be using the exact same bullets as a 45 or 50 caliber ML but without a sabot. I was basically cut short and told "sir it's clearly stated in the regulations that only 45 cal or larger is legal. I seriously doubt a game warden would even notice or question the caliber in the field but I went with a 45 barrel so I wouldn't have an issues down the road.
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Post by dougedwards on Mar 2, 2009 20:31:45 GMT -5
I have been checked twice on public land for my muzzleloader liscense and neither time did the warden give any notice to my gun at all. There is a possibility that they may check to see if you are transporting a muzzleloader in a vehicle that has an inserted primer which is illegal but there isn't much chance that they might check the caliber.
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