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Post by lunchbox on Mar 30, 2011 18:44:55 GMT -5
I am going to start my reloading for my wifes 30-06 for her bear trip. I have some time before she comes back off of deployment so Im going to ask you guys for help.  I need to get a bullet that will hold up, penetrate and do some internal damage to a black bear. She chose the 165gr bullet because she said it felt better to her. So any suggestions as to what bullets and powder? And im new to reloading so if you could try to explain why that bullet it would help me also. Thanks Lunchbox |
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Post by rossman40 on Mar 31, 2011 15:04:30 GMT -5
When you have to have the best at penetration I like the Nosler Partition or a Swift A-Frame with the Swift coming out on top. The Barnes everybody may brag on but will loose petals going thru bone then you are left with a light core, specially if it is a close shot with high impact velocity. With the Partition or the A-Frame you can loose the front half of the bullet going thru a shoulder and still have a lead core FMJ drilling thru. Other bullets like the Winchester XP3 or maybe the Speer Grand Slam may be good enough.
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Post by smokepole50 on Mar 31, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -5
How big of a bear do you think she might be shooting? A 165gr bullet will be fine but a proper 150gr bullet will get the job done just fine unless you shooting 600 lb bears. My cousin dropped a black bear sow this past fall with one shot from his 300 WSM. The sow weighted at least 250 lbs and I loaded the 150gr Hornady SST load myself. Proper bullet selection and proper bullet placement make all the difference. Nosler Partition bullets are very good bullets and would be a good choice but I would first decide which bullet shoots the best in your wife's rifle as it may shoot 150gr bullets better then 165 grainers. I have also loaded 150gr Nosler/Winchester combined technology bullets for a friend with a 30-06. He shot a good size boar bear with that load and everyone though he had shot it with a cannon because the 150gr (basically a Ballistic Tip with black moly coating) bullet blew a huge hole in the bear and I think it was DRT.
The 30-06 is a powerful cartridge using a 150gr bullet. Use a good bullet and your wife won't have any trouble taking a good bear with one shot if the bullet is well placed.
Smokepole50
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 31, 2011 20:07:34 GMT -5
I think that a 165 gr Nosler partition at about 2800 fps would be a great way to say "goodnight" to any black bear that walks.
If you will be parked over a bait station where you can choose your shot at 40 yds, accuracy will not be as much of an issue as the right bullet....and since you should be able to choose your angle/shot, most any bullet in this weight range should spell sweet dreams and loud death bawls for this beast.
Heck, Ozark drops 'em with a .17 HMR...DRT. ;D ;D
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Post by lunchbox on Apr 1, 2011 10:26:59 GMT -5
I am not sure how big the bear will be. She wants the biggest one she can find, but who wouldn't ;D
She is choosing to sit over a bait station for her first hunt.
Is there a book or something that I can get that tells/explains about all the kinds of bullets and how they perform?
Thanks
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 2, 2011 16:02:48 GMT -5
You can go by what propaganda the bullet makers and their gun writer buddies have to say which can be, lets say a bit twisted to sell bullets. Basiclly you have to weigh how fast your shooting it, what range your hunting and the type of animal your going against. So from what you are describing your going to use a 30-06 with a 165gr bullet at a range of 100yds less so your looking at a MV of around 2800fps which would still be doing 2500 fps or more at 100yds. Your going against bear so will it be black or brown, a black can go 250-500 and a big brown can go 750-1000. Then is it a fall hunt when the bears are fattened up or a spring hunt.
As far as the bullet a plastic tip opens faster then a soft or flat tip. The faster the bullet opens the faster it starts to transfer energy, the faster it transfers energy the less penetration. Jacket thickness also plays into the formula. If the bullet mushrooms big and fast and then goes against a shoulder bone you may not get the penetration because the bullet will not stay intact. Bonded is another factor, bonded means the lead is soldered or fused to the jacket to prevent the jacket separating.
You can use a Ballistic Silvertip which is one of my favorite bullets in a 30-06 for deer but maybe a bit quick and over-expanding for bear if you catch the shoulder. I would base the choice on the worst that can happen. If she goes for a broadside shot and pulls it into the shoulder you will want a stiff bullet. The Partition and the A-Frame are probly the best of the lead core bullets with the A-Frame being IMO tougher. Other bullets I would rank high would be the Speer GrandSlam or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and maybe the Hornady InterBond but I think it may be on the light side with the plastic tip and thinner jacket.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Apr 2, 2011 16:23:59 GMT -5
Yeah to what Rossman said....
.30 cal bullets made well and shot fast are bad medicine for all North American game. No need to be fancy here. Tough bullet in 165 or heavier will probably give you 2 holes at most ranges on even a big bear.
I have one deer kill with a 30-06. I was 16. Load was a factory 150 gr silvertip. This was 27 years ago when I was 16. Hit the buck in the throat at 15 yds or so...facing me. Found the base of the bullet under the skin in the back of the neck. Didn't weight it but it probably was less then 50 gr.
Having used partitions shot fast in ML's, I can't imagine that they wouldn't give 2 holes in a heavy 30 cal with a slimmer profile. They are designed to shed the nose and drive...drive. I only have recovered one...from a buck I hit on the onside shoulder (broke it) and recovered it from under the skin on the off-side hip (broke it) The bullet did exactly what it was supposed to. Shed the nose and the rest keeps going. That bullet broke the front and rear end of one of my biggest bucks at 70 yds with a MV ov about 1950 fpf....a blackpowder Knight disc load in 2001.
Guess what that deer did when I hit it? Crumpled like a house of cards.
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Post by youp50 on Apr 4, 2011 18:50:41 GMT -5
Big bears start at 350 pounds dressed. They are just that...big. Heavy bones and muscle can stop a typical cup and core bullet.
We killed a bear one year that was 'only' 235 pounds dressed. He was walking wounded, hungry, hitting a bait station. His upper front shoulder bone was broken by a foster slug. His shoulder green and septic.
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Post by lunchbox on Apr 6, 2011 20:34:27 GMT -5
Youp that does not sound like a good thing for the bear. But at least you could put it out of its misery.
I hope she can shoot a big bear. But she has already said that she dont care big or not she is just hoping for one. I am glad to hear that so that way she is not upset by shooting one that she thinks is small
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Post by youp50 on Apr 9, 2011 18:48:34 GMT -5
Most bears suffer from ground shrinkage. Google bear anatomy and get her to shoot through the front shoulders, high to clip the spine. Might not be DRT, but it will be RT. Little ones are better eating. If she gets a big male bear, pull a piece of meat off and cook it immediately. Should it stink the camp up, you will not have spent time or money on processing it. Some mature male bears are not fit to eat, cannot be made fit to eat, stink so bad you won't want to eat.
Bring a camera and post images in the big game thread.
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Post by lunchbox on Apr 9, 2011 22:01:27 GMT -5
Do you know why some of the big ones are not good to eat? I know deer are tougher the older they are, is it kinda the same?
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Post by youp50 on Apr 10, 2011 9:52:00 GMT -5
I could speculate.
I do know that in 30 plus years of bear hunting and probably around 100 kills we have taken 2 bears not fit to eat. We know how to take care of a bear for the best table fair possible.
I have heard that there is a similarity in hogs and bears. I know some hog hunters castrate the young boars and also take the tail off. The castration is to improve the eating quality and the tail is to identify the barrows. That way the deer hunters on the lease can take a good eating hog and leave the breeding stock. I do not know anyone man enough to attempt to castrate a young bear.
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Post by Rifleman on Apr 10, 2011 18:41:04 GMT -5
Tar 12 could do it.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 10, 2011 19:06:38 GMT -5
That's why most bear is served in stew. I have heard that if someone gives you bear meat look out! Because it may be the small percentage totally unfit to eat! Supposedly the secret is to cut as much fat off as possible and pressure cook it well before dicing it up and mixing the veggies into the stew. I have had bear meatballs in a wild BBQ sauce served on beans and rice that wasn't too bad at all. I had what was supposed to be a young bear as a roast which was a bit tough but was edible.
The hide is where it is at. Just a black bear hide can be worth $400 or more. A black bearskin rug with head and claws goes for around $1500, a brown about $3000 unless it is a real big one then you can get more.
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Post by youp50 on Apr 11, 2011 18:23:53 GMT -5
A bear has some glands, don't really know what they are called. They come in pairs, right side left side. One pair on the neck, one pair under the front leg pits, and one pair behind the rear leg knees. They are kind of grey, green looking kidney bean sized things. Surrounded in fat. Get them out.
Bear meat makes a poor steak. Not because of the quality of the meat, I prefer bear to whitetail venison, but the muscle groups are surrounded by silver skin. The steaks cook up funny. Roasts from the hind quarters and backstraps. Stew meat from the rest. Cook well or let sit in freezer for a few months, trichinosis.
This months Peterson's Hunting has a bunch of info on black bear hunting. I haven't read it all. I did notice where some place has bear meat from the hind quarters at 165 bucks for 3 and a half pounds.
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Post by smokepole50 on Jun 17, 2011 17:36:48 GMT -5
I ground up some of the Sow bear my cousin shot last fall. It made some mighty fine burgers. Even some of the long hind qr muscles made tender fry meat but others you could chew on all day long and never get anywhere. The taste was fine but you just never got it chewed up. It was like it had elastic between the muscle grain.
Smokepole50
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Post by deadon on Jun 17, 2011 18:43:26 GMT -5
I ground up some of the Sow bear my cousin shot last fall. It made some mighty fine burgers. Even some of the long hind qr muscles made tender fry meat but others you could chew on all day long and never get anywhere. The taste was fine but you just never got it chewed up. It was like it had elastic between the muscle grain. Smokepole50 Sounds like chewing a squrrrel that has not been properly cooked, like chewing rubberbands, yuk |
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