Pillaring the 700ML

[fishhawk]

There appears to be a run on converting 700MLs to smokeless. Many will want to pillar and bed these guns. Be aware that the trigger guard is not parallel to the action. This requires a bevel on the trigger guard end of the pillar whether you pillar the front trigger guard screw or not. Thought I would bring this up, as it might save someone some head scratching.

[alphaburnt]

Are all 700 S/A ADLs like this too? I purchased an aftermarket ADL stock and have not received it yet to check it out.

[fishhawk]

I'm pretty sure all the ADLs are. After further research it appears all 700s are ADL, BDL, long and short.

[DBinNY]

Fishhawk, how does one "clock" the pillars so they don't spin when tightening (i.e., keep the beveled end where it belongs)? I wrap tape around the action screws to make sure that they are centered in the pillars. You have to insert the screws through the trigger guard prior to taping them. With flat ended pillars this is no issue. Also, is there any problem with pillaring the front trigger guard screw (the small one) with a normal pillar (3/8 hole in the pillar) and the small screw (lots of tape!) in case one wanted to use a larger screw in the future? I hope not because I'm gonna do it!

[fishhawk]

What I did was go ahead and open up the front trigger guard screw hole in the action to 1/4-28 like the other two screws. To do this properly I had to center off the existing hole using a gauge pin, then create a clearance on the higher areas with a 1/4" end mill before drilling and tapping. The hole in the guard then needs to be enlarged and re-countersunk. Even with tape around the screws to center in the pillar, the new front trigger guard pillar wants to lean back from the load put only on the front edge of a flat pillar. Also on the SS actions I've seen there is a groove cut just behind the rear action screw that tend to make this pillar lean also. What I do for these two pillars is cut them on an EDM to a 1.25" (the action has a 1.35"diameter) diameter curve that makes the outer edges about .003" proud of the center. If I did not have EDM access "V"ing those pillars would be my choice. I then leave the trigger guard end of the trigger guard pillars a little long and flat. I also remove the front escutcheon and make that pillar flush with the bottom of the escutcheon hole. That perfect length can only really be determined once the action and barrel are all clearanced and floated with tape around the barrel at the tip of the fore end and on the tang behind the rear pillar. I don't clearance and bed that tiny area behind the tang screw where the tape is to avoid loosing this position reference. I then attach only the pillars with screws and bed the action and pillars all at one time. I made the head one of the screws to hold a trigger guard pillar perfectly cylinder shaped. then made a washer with the outside diameter of the trigger guard slot, and the inside diameter of the cylinder screw head. This fits over the screw head when the assy is epoxied in to hold the assy centered side to side. Afterwards, the stock is leveled in the mill and I mill the trigger guard pillar off just above flush using the old flat trigger guard surface as the reference for level. this way the guard is not pressed into the plastic. The escutcheon is reinstalled. If I didn't have access to all the good tools I might look into the pillars that Score High Gunsmithing makes. Or if you make pillars and V both the rears, cut the estimated 2.5 degree angle for the guard, put index marks on the guard end this would probably work. But you would have to leave the guard off while bedding to be sure the alignment stayed right. Sorry to be so wordy, but this has some quirks with the angled trigger guard, small front screw, and escutcheon. Anything that I didn't describe well enough, just ask!...Greg

[DBinNY]

Thanks Greg, you've given me some ideas.

[trev33]

Here's all you need to bed any Rem 700. They have the adjustable pillars for the angle of the trigger guard. Used these several times and they work perfect.

www.scorehi.com/

Trev

[fishhawk]

Only problem with score high kit is no pillar for front trigger guard screw if you want it pillared. That pillar needs the angle too, maybe a score high rear pillar would work there if they would sell an extra.

[DBinNY]

Thanks for the options. I'm only doing a factory plastic stock which is worth less than the kit. I think I'll just build the pillars myself since I have a unimat lathe and I'll figure out some way to hand cut and file the V's. I can always get a decent stock later but I wanted to play with this one. It will give me a relatively lightweight "beater" that is impervious to weather.

[brute]

Mar 2, 2011 10:12:57 GMT -5 fishhawk said:

Only problem with score high kit is no pillar for front trigger guard screw if you want it pillared. That pillar needs the angle too, maybe a score high rear pillar would work there if
they would sell an extra.

Why pillar bed the front trigger guard screw ? Rem 700 BDLs don't even have them. Most guys I know use a wood screw on the front TG screwhole so as to eliminate any stress this might induce on the action. YMMV !

[fishhawk]

Why pillar bed the front trigger guard screw ? Rem 700 BDLs don't even have them. Most guys I know use a wood screw on the front TG screwhole so as to eliminate any stress this might induce on the action. YMMV ![/quote]
You could not pillar that screw, if so and you had a filled magwell I would put an insert in to run a machine screw in. I despise wood screws, they always strip out. Lots of posts on this board about pulled threads on Savage rear screws. The reason I pillar this hole is you are dealing with an action that is 6.5" (very long) between the regular action screws. Many are bedding to the factory plastic stock that has fairly poor epoxy bonding caracteristics. A smokeless ML shooting max loads can have a very high recoil, some as high as 42ft.lbs. (to date) These are all reasons in my opinion to add an extra anchor point.

[Jon]

Fishhawk. Very good thought.
Jon

[fishhawk]

Here's a three pillar 700ML bedding job on a members gun where the front trigger screw hole in the action was opened up to 1/4-28 like the other two.

These are the pillars after cutting to the angle of the trigger guard. I left the pillars about .005 proud of the molded bed for the guard to insure no stress when attached.

[brute]

Pardon my ignorance. Don't know how problems with Savage screws pulling out relates to Rem actions. Seems that's something to address on Savages. Wonder how in hades Remingtons have with stood the recoil of rounds like the .458 win and .375 H&H not to mention wildcats like the.338 edge without jumping right out of the stock due to recoil. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

[ratsnakeboogy]

Pardon my ignorance, but I have two of the three calibers you mentioned above, and if you #1 put them in a tupperwear stock, and #2 glass bedded said stock and shoot them about five times you would understand what he's getting at.

When you find a .375, or .458 in an injection molded stock(I'm not sure Remington was ever stupid enough to do that), buy it and see how long it will hold zero.

Apples and Oranges

[rossman40]

DB, I wouldn't even worry about contouring the pillars to match the action. Too much of a hassle to get right.

The 700 CKS in 375 H&H is in a synthetic stock. But the stock is a Brown Precision fully pillared kevlar model. That's why you pay $1500.

The screw on the Savage that pulls out is the rear trigger guard screw that is a wood screw just into the wood which is always overtightened. I noticed on the newer stocks there is a plastic bushing in that hole.

[ratsnakeboogy]

Exactly, Kevlar. Not injection molded plastic.

Maybe just a bad cheerios day for somebody.

not aimed at rossman by the way.

[alphaburnt]

Nice work. How did you go about filling the magazine well fishhawk? Would a B&C kevlar stock fair well without this pillar and 1/4-28 update?

[fishhawk]

Mar 6, 2011 22:29:03 GMT -5 alphaburnt said:

Nice work. How did you go about filling the magazine well fishhawk? Would a B&C kevlar stock fair well without this pillar and 1/4-28 update?

here's a block trimmed to fit.

Here one is epoxied in plus a few holes drilled for bonding insurance. I drill all the plastic bonding areas with small holes at different angles, and scuff the plastic with a dull dremel tool to raise burrs to stick to also.
It would be fine, but I personally would try to find a way to keep the front trigger screw from being attached to the action. For a magwell filler, I found a piece of poplar at Lowes that is a true 1"x1", cut to length and with a little trimming it fits good.

[fishhawk]

Mar 6, 2011 21:17:16 GMT -5 brute said:

Pardon my ignorance. Don't know how problems with Savage screws pulling out relates to Rem actions. Seems that's something to address on Savages. Wonder how in hades Remingtons have with stood the recoil of rounds like the .458 win and .375 H&H not to mention wildcats like the.338 edge without jumping right out of the stock due to recoil. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

My dog hunts just fine in my woods. I'll build them my way, you do yours the way you want. OK?

[DBinNY]

Thanks for all the tips and photos. I did "V" the top of the pillar for the front trigger guard screw and, as fishhawk suggests, it is much easier to get it to set square (the milled slot for the trigger is the problem). I'm going to use a pillar that will accommodate a 1/4" screw but I'll just use the wimpy one for now. I'll center it with tape. It doesn't seem to be as critical for the rear trigger guard screw but I'll probably build a "V" pillar for that one too. I'm in no rush here so I can just mess around. I can't see any advantage to using a "V" pillar for the front action screw but feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.

[fishhawk]

I use a flat one one the front. On a blued action you can use a flat one for the rear pillar. Its just the SS ones that have that weird groove behind that screw that can make a flat pillar want to rock back when tightened.