|
|
Post by esshup on Jan 17, 2011 12:12:51 GMT -5
Other than the .460 S&W and the .458 Whisper for deer in Indiana if the 1.800" max case length would be legalized?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Jan 17, 2011 13:22:31 GMT -5
450 Bushmaster I believe.
|
|
|
|
Post by cfvickers on Jan 17, 2011 16:56:16 GMT -5
Yes Sir! It would fall in at 1.700 inches and 2.26 I thing OAL loaded. And quite potent to boot!
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Jan 17, 2011 19:37:18 GMT -5
I like it because it seems to be more readily available- by that I mean the uppers and the ammo. Seems it is a ballistic twin to the 458 Socom which is legal now, but the Socom uppers and ammo and components are hard to come by and expensive. I do like that the Socom uses a .458 bullet and dislike the .452 bullet the Bushmaster uses. But at the expected velocities of 2200 is I suppose the .452' s will suffice. But I would rather shoot the . 458 BO.
However I am not looking to build a deer specific AR. It would be cool but I see no real advantage to it over a 44 mag carbine. I do see a big advantage ( effective range) to a 35 cal at 2800 FPS over the 44 mag or a . 45 AR platform. All what you want to do I suppose. To me an accurate semi- auto in 7mm would be the ticket as an all around deer gun. Oh well the quest for the perfect Indiana deer gun goes on and on and on.
|
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2011 0:14:36 GMT -5
There was a guy that was supposedly just cutting back a .458 Winchester magnum or 450 Marlin to meet the case length. The only problem I would have is about the time you make a rifle they will change the rules.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Jan 18, 2011 8:32:46 GMT -5
Exactly Rossman the reason I have not dropped the hammer on a build yet. Who wants to be stuck with a wildcat rifle that is expensive to shoot and now one wants to buy? If the DNR would just designate centerfire areas and make all centerfires legal in the more rural areas this would be a much more reasonable approach. I guess I will continue to day dream of choppers and mini guns.
|
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2011 22:36:14 GMT -5
A friend has a .458 SOCOM AR, uses it for 3 gun matches. Expensive but a lot more bullet options then the 450 Bushmaster. If you have a extra Savage CF you could always get a Pacnor .458 barrel and have it chambered for the 458 SOCOM, then if you get tired of it have it re-cut for a breech plug.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Jan 19, 2011 8:49:35 GMT -5
You know I like the semi-s Ken, and I looked along time at the SOCOM. But the uppers are kinda scarce and so is ammo and components. Not saying it is not doable, with proper planning of course I could do the socom or any wildcat for that matter. What I like about the Bushmaster it the factory ammo is much easier to obtain. I am really tired of reloading. I think somewhere around the 100K mark years ago I started to get jaded and when I hit the 200K I was really tired of it. I quit all together for a few years and gave away or sold everything. Then a couple years ago I wanted a run of 44's so I borrowed and bought some stuff. Well I just got it all out of the house again a couple of weeks ago and was tickled to see it go. I find as I get older that time is more precious to me then $$. I guess that is why I have pared my gun collection down to what I consider to be a minimum and all my guns are all in major calibers. I still have alot of reloads left, but I have bought large lots of factory or surplus ammo over the years. I have seen to many of my friends pass on and leave big amounts of ammo and these always sold from the estate pennies on the dollar. I don't mind leaving some for the boy, but I would rather leave him some really dirty guns to clean rather then a bunch of ammo and clean guns.  |
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Jan 19, 2011 11:18:31 GMT -5
Factory ammo is half the price ($1.50 vs $3) for the 450 Bushmaster, or as one guy told me "Mushmaster", you hit something with it and it is turned to mush. Your stuck paying premium (about $200 more) for SOCOM uppers right now even from RRA. My friend reloads his with the cheap 300gr remingtons but throws a hissy fit when he loses his brass on the range, $1 a pop.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike3132 on Jan 20, 2011 10:22:34 GMT -5
Ive put together 3 of the 358 WSSM wildcats this year all on Savage 16 actions using McGowen barrels. The last one I finished about 2 weeks ago cost right at $1700.00 counting optics.
Even if the new rule of 1.8 gets passed I doubt there is another cartridge that will out perform the .358 WSSM. The only nice thing about 1.8 length will be you wont have to shorten the WSSM case but someone will need to come up with a new reamer.
To load the 358WSSM you need dies, $150.00, either make or buy formed brass, buy-$1.75 each, make-$0.75 each. Ive shot every bullet and powder combo in the .358 WSSM and for me the Speer 180 FP using Reloader7 going 2800 fps at the muzzle is an outstanding deer round. I shot two very big bucks this year using this round and both went down very quickly. Just so you know Indiana has a one buck rule , the second buck was at a state park deer reduction hunt. Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by dans on Jan 20, 2011 13:02:06 GMT -5
Even if they go to 1.8 the current .358 wssm wildcat still does about all you could want in a rifle for Indiana hunting. I can't see how the extra length is going to make that much difference in the wildcat .358 caliber. It will require the use of WSM brass with the resultant labor of case forming. Right now we simply anneal, fireform, trim, and turn the case necks. Once that is done the cases seem to last forever. Mike tends to reload the same small batch of cases over and over when developing loads. One batch of 20 has been loaded 20 times and still going strong. Even if the 1.8 cartridge length is passed, I am going to stay with the .358 wssm. I can hunt confidently any game in the lower 48 with mine shooting a 200 grain Barnes TSX, at 2640 f/s.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Jan 20, 2011 13:23:27 GMT -5
i agree im not going to lengthen my chamber either,im shooting 358 wssm/225 tsx @ 2600fps-w .5moa & took this out to almost 700yds for stability. it did very fine even though i consider this a effective 500yd cartridge in the right hands. very pleasant to shoot & would make a heck of a bear/moose round also.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjhans53 on Jan 21, 2011 19:34:01 GMT -5
My 35 short is an outstanding deer thumper. It's just a short version of a 358 win. I push a 200 horn @ 2400 and it hammers deer. The thing the 1.8 will do for me is that I can let the necks get to the same length of the necks on the 358 win. If I wanted to I could just deepen the chambers and get another 100 fps (I've already built it and decided the extra wasn't worth it) but I think the longer necks will help if I decide to use the 200 rem round nose for the kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by dans on Jan 22, 2011 15:41:39 GMT -5
The .50 Hush Puppy would be legal also.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Jan 22, 2011 20:10:48 GMT -5
Too bad we can't use the can with that puppy as well |
|
|
|
Post by dans on Jan 23, 2011 23:07:00 GMT -5
Yeah I'll bet that it is mouthy esp. in a short barrel.
|
|
|
|
Post by sinarms on Mar 24, 2011 22:03:15 GMT -5
I have done a few barrels for you Indiana guys, most are going with 358 WSSM barrels but some are moving to the 458 socom as stated above. The 458 is easier as it uses the 08 bolt head and feeds pretty easily from a magazine. The 358 WSSM you should start with a WSM rifle but those are harder to come by compared to a 243 or 308 donor rifle. The Savage action does make a pretty good donor rifle for such builds as they are easy to work on and fairly cheap.
|
|
|
|
Post by smokepole50 on Mar 29, 2011 16:56:30 GMT -5
With a 1.515 inch case length the 6.5 Grendel cartridge might be a good choice for you guys. I can load a 100gr Nosler BT to 2600 fps out of a 16 inch Alexander Arms upper. With a 19-20 in barrel that goes up to 2800 fps with a 100gr bullet. I like the Remington 120gr Core-loks at 2400 fps, they are very accurate from the 16 inch barrel and cheap to shoot, plus they kill real fine.
Smokepole50
|
|
|
|
Post by mike3132 on Mar 30, 2011 8:33:43 GMT -5
With a 1.515 inch case length the 6.5 Grendel cartridge might be a good choice for you guys. I can load a 100gr Nosler BT to 2600 fps out of a 16 inch Alexander Arms upper. With a 19-20 in barrel that goes up to 2800 fps with a 100gr bullet. I like the Remington 120gr Core-loks at 2400 fps, they are very accurate from the 16 inch barrel and cheap to shoot, plus they kill real fine. Smokepole50 Indiana law is .357 or larger. The new proposal now increase cartridge length to 1.80 instead of 1.625. Mike |
|
|
|
Post by lanenebraska on Apr 14, 2011 14:34:58 GMT -5
[quote author=mike3132 board=modern thread=7384 Smokepole50[/quote]Indiana law is .357 or larger. The new proposal now increase cartridge length to 1.80 instead of 1.625. Mike[/quote] Hello 45-70 case reduction of just .305 and you're in business :-) I'd load it up with your favorite powder and Barnes 250g TSX FN's. The 250g is on the left   |
|
|
|
Post by bogusmcall on Apr 22, 2011 15:49:16 GMT -5
I have a custom Ruger no.1 in 460 mag with a 24" barrel.Shooting 300 gr SST's I'm getting 2400 fps and 1" groups. I have shortened some cases in order to comply with the 1.625" law for this season and I'm getting 2280 fps from the "short mag". It shoots moa also.
|
|
