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Post by lunchbox on Jan 15, 2011 16:55:44 GMT -5
Is there really that much of a difference in clarity as you go up in price on rifle scopes? I ordered a 3-9x50 firefly and got it in the mail today and all I can say is WOW!!!!  I have never had the chance to be able to buy a scope like this or better and I can not believe the difference in the clarity and to me the niceness of the bushnell. I know it has more light in it because of the 50 but I never thought that it would look so much clearer lunchbox |
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Post by tar12 on Jan 15, 2011 17:48:11 GMT -5
You get what you pay for!
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Post by youp50 on Jan 15, 2011 18:38:25 GMT -5
Someplace around one of these boards you will find Rossman (resident expert on scopes) stating that the 3200 series has the best glass for the price. On his recommendation I have a 3x9x40 with the firefly cross hairs. No doubt I could easily get cited for shooting after legal hours with this scope.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 18:54:59 GMT -5
I've always had good luck with the Bushnell Elite series scopes both the 4200 and the 3200 models. I have one on one my Savage's with over 1000 shots on it and it's still ticking. In fact I just bought another 3x9 3200 that Midway has on sale. It was $60 cheaper than the last one I bought... I've never tried the firefly.
Good luck, Zen
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Post by jims on Jan 15, 2011 22:21:51 GMT -5
I have had good luck with the 3200, 4000 and the 4200 series.
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Post by lunchbox on Jan 15, 2011 22:47:14 GMT -5
My kids and I just played with the firefly reticle inside the house. It came with a little flashlight to shine on the reticle to get it to glow. I was amazed at how bright it was even after waiting about 15 min to get it back to look thru it.
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 16, 2011 23:03:15 GMT -5
I have two 3200's and a 4200 with no complaints. Even have a
couple Dawn to Dusk Banners and a Trophy for light recoil and
RF with no complaints there, either.
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Post by mdgroundhogger on Jan 16, 2011 23:21:36 GMT -5
Those scopes are nice. Good glass makes a big difference at the end of the day when things really start getting interesting. I always feel like "why couldn't these deer come out 15min earlier?"
If given the chance check out one of Trijicons 3-9x40's with the german post. Very nice multicoated glass for a 40mm and that little triangle glows even in pitch black conditions because of the built in tritinium gases. Very cool. Alittle expensive, but very cool. I could see how you could get in trouble with Johnny Law with one though!!!
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 17, 2011 8:57:16 GMT -5
I've got several Bushnell Elite series scopes, and I love them. My first was purchased when the scopes were still made by Boush and Lomb. It was an Elite 3000 2-7x32 pistol scope for my 7-08 Encore. VERY DURABLE scope. Even dropped it out of the stand once. Dented the scope tube, but still holds zero and works just fine. It's now on my 10" 44mag contender. Both of these guns develop some pretty serious recoil, and I've never had a bit of problems with the scope. I have an Elite 3200 on my ML10-11 and one on my dad's Encore ML. Another on his .223 contender rifle barrel, and a 4200 4-16x50 on my AR flat top, and a spare 3200 sitting new in the box waiting on me to buy a rifle for it. It's been waiting for almost 10 years. Long wait  The only other scope I own (on a center fire anyway) is a Vari-X III 6-20x40 target scope that's on my 25-06 Sendaro. I keep thinking that I'd like to get a nicer scope for a rifle, but the Elite's have done so well for me that it will probably never happen unless I finally get a long range gun built. |
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 17, 2011 16:44:52 GMT -5
The way I understand it Bausch & Lomb bought Bushnell in 1972. Bushnell had been supplying binos and spotting scopes and telescopes to B&L way before that. Now B&L started making riflescopes in like 1966, they had a plant in Rochester, NY. In 1973 B&L decided to spin-off the sports optics under the Bushnell banner so they could concentrate on the medical optics. Then in like 1976 they closed the Rochester plant about the same time the Elite series came out and the Elites were made in Japan. After that B&L sold the Bushnell side to a Asian holding company and then it went back to an American company in the 90s and then to the current owners right around 2000. Bushnell continued licensing the B&L name to brand sport optics till 2006. Rumor has it that when David Bushnell died in 2005 the deal that was made between the old men with a hand shake was off between Bushnell and B&L.
If you have a true B&L scope it will be marked "Made in USA". If it says "Made in Japan" it was actually made for Bushnell and branded B&L. Not to say that is bad, the Elite series was been great quality for a good price. A 6500 is some of the best glass coming out of Japan.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 18, 2011 20:44:43 GMT -5
rossman - where in the world do you get this stuff?  You're amazing! I'm not being sarcastic either. It may or may not be extremely relevant, but it's like you're a walking encyclopedia. Wiki should be sending you a paycheck. |
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Post by boarhog on Jan 19, 2011 1:37:38 GMT -5
I just learned that I need a new scope for my Savage 7-08, and you guys convinced me to order a Bushnell 3200. I simply couldn't afford a hi $$ model right now. I settled on a 3-10 compact model that Midway has on sale. I'll report how it works out soon. Tracking says it should arrive tomorrow.
Boarhog
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 19, 2011 10:49:31 GMT -5
Before I bought my WCE I used a 3200. While the WCE glass is far better then the 3200, on a wet rainy day I would rather have the 3200 with it's Rainguard.
It's part of shooting industry history! David Bushnell was a leader in the industry, not by making the product, but by seeing the market and then finding the products. He also started the "have someone else make it and put your name on it" which is so common today in sports optics. On a trip abroad after WWII he picked up a pair of binos which were scarce to consumers in the US and in demand. He ordered like 400 from Japan and sold them in minutes and that is how Bushnell got started in sports optics.
What is weird Bushnell's primary supplier in the early years was the Asahi Optical Co.. The wife of the owner made the comment that in the early years after WWII, what was on the table for dinner depended on orders from their now good friend David Bushnell ( for a jap to call an american a friend after WWII was next to knighthood). In the 60s Asahi Optical Co. renamed itself Pentax.
Bausch and Lomb history is also interesting considering their ties with Zeiss in the years before WWI. At one time Zeiss owned 20% of B&L which gave B&L access to all of Zeiss's technical knowledge of the time. B&L was the only supplier of high-end optics (the old term was "scientific glass") in the western hemisphere till the last of the 20th century. B&L was considered so important to national defense that Navy personnel were assigned to the plants from WWI till the end of WWII.
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Post by boarhog on Jan 19, 2011 13:07:53 GMT -5
This morning, I noticed that Graf has a couple of WCEs available @ $479.00, about half of retail. Both are 3-10X56, and one is plex, the other is German reticle. Not as good a deal as the one I got last year, but still a good buy.
Boarhog
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Post by mdgroundhogger on Jan 19, 2011 13:10:02 GMT -5
thelefthand, I agree with you about Rossman. And no Im not BSing anyone. I read that last comment by him and thought WOW. Rossman you are very helpful, sir. ;D
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 22, 2011 21:41:38 GMT -5
From the SHOT Show.. There will no longer be 3200 and 4200s made. The 6500 Elites will remain in the line up but the 3200s and 4200s will be merged to a new Elite (just "Elite") line. The new Elite line will feature argon gas and a new anti-reflective coating they are selling as "wide band" which is supposed to be like a 7% increase in light transmission. They will still have the Rainguard also. Supposedly a couple of the models will be manufactured in China.
So look for the cheap close-outs on 3200 and 4200s like what Natchez is running now.
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Post by crusader on Jan 24, 2011 19:50:10 GMT -5
Just to throw my two cents in here--I have both 3200 and 4200 models and like them a ton. I have always considered them to be the best bang for the buck. But a few weeks ago I came across the info about the Weaver Nitrex line being discontinued and Natchez buying them out. With their sale prices and rebates, the scopes are incredibly inexpensive. The TR1 is supposed to be about the same as a Grand Slam and the TR2 a Super Slam. So I bought a TR1 in 6.5-20x50 for my prairie dog gun and a TR2 in 3-15x50 for my Savage 10ML-II. Got both scopes last week and they are outstanding! Given the price (I paid about $350 total for both of them, excluding shipping and handling), I believe they are a better deal than the Bushnells (even at the lower prices you can get them for now that they will be discontinued). The only possible downside I see is that both scopes are heavy, but that doesn't bother me as I am lugging those rifles around anyway, I will be in stands with them.
Good luck choosing!
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Post by kopodd on Feb 3, 2011 23:05:27 GMT -5
Rossman
How do some of the Vortex scopes compare to the 6500? Thanks
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Post by rossman40 on Feb 5, 2011 13:22:08 GMT -5
Vortex sells a good product which is a lot of value for the money and you can't beat the warranty and customer service is second to none.
You have to remember that most scopes are made by the same companies. If it comes from Japan more then likely it comes off the line at Light Optical Works (LOW). There they make the high end Bushnells, Nikons, Weavers, Nitrex, Sightron, Clearidge, Vortex and some of Cabela's line. They also do major components for Nightforce and Trijicon. The customer can order what quality of lenses, coatings and what bells and whistles they want on their scopes.
If it comes from the Philippines it comes from a plant that is a Japanese joint venture involving LOW. There mid-range scopes are made like Burris Fullfields, Nikon Monarchs and Omegas, Bushnell Trophys, and IIRC the Vortex Diamondback. A lot of money has been dumped into this plant over the years and the quality is now to the point that Nikon builds the Monarchs there. The Monarch Gold and "X" are still made in Japan. But the Monarch African has the Illuminated reticle model made in Japan (MSRP like $1000) and the non-iluminated model made in the Philippines (MSRP like $400).
Even with the big names like Zeiss and Minox they try to pull the wool over your eyes. If it is made in the USA it comes from a plant ran by Meopta and even the mighty Zeiss Conquest has only about 15-20% of the parts made by Zeiss (maybe less nowadays).
When it comes to China it is all over the place with like 250 manufacturing companies and then you have the exporters.
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I have never had the chance to be able to buy a scope like this or better and I can not believe the difference in the clarity and to me the niceness of the bushnell. I know it has more light in it because of the 50 but I never thought that it would look so much clearer
The only other scope I own (on a center fire anyway) is a Vari-X III 6-20x40 target scope that's on my 25-06 Sendaro. I keep thinking that I'd like to get a nicer scope for a rifle, but the Elite's have done so well for me that it will probably never happen unless I finally get a long range gun built. 
You're amazing! I'm not being sarcastic either. It may or may not be extremely relevant, but it's like you're a walking encyclopedia. Wiki should be sending you a paycheck. 