Cursed by the Sins of the Father

[deadon]

Is It possible that one can fail his whole life because of what a father did and the son never even knew him?

[dougedwards]

Not only possible but in most cases very probable. Somehow today we discount the tremendous affect that parents have on their offspring. Both parents are working 50 hrs a week and are way too tired to be an example to the children. There is an old saying that goes like this...... with children more is "caught than taught". In other words our children learn from our behaviors and reactions or the lack thereof much quicker than from what comes from our verbal instructions to them.

I presume that you are referring to a passage in the Holy Bible that says that the sins of the parents are passed down to their posterity. In a certain sense that is very evidently true. Sin itself is like a cancer that eats into the fabric of not only individuals but of families, societies and countries. If this is true then is there any hope for us? Nope.......not unless we come to grip with our own sins and forgive those who have sinned against us.

We have all entered into an affair with the world and don't deserve to be welcomed back by the One who not only created us but preserves us day to day. But God's grace is greater than our father's sins, or mother's sins, or than all of the sins that we ourselves have commited. And as we receive this totally undeserved but freely given mercy from God we must also show mercy to our own fathers and mothers as well as others who have adversely affected us in life.

God's way is not man's way. Aren't you happy for it??

Doug

[stubblejumper]

Deadon

I love reading Dougs posts but I hate trying to follow them =) so I will let scripture speak instead.

I think I understand you to be asking if a son can suffer for the sins of his father as a kind of "curse" for something his father did more than just a natural consequence of his father's actions.? This is a fairly popular teaching in some circles and is known as "generational curses"

The good news is that this teaching directly contradicts the words of God in Ezekial 18:5-20. If you are thinking that this "curse" is a part of your life PLEASE read that portion of scripture until you believe it with all of your heart. Especially verse 19.

As Doug stated above and in the words of a great hymn there is a "grace that is greater than all my sin." Don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.

Doug, I thank God for your wisdom and your way with words. God bless you

Ed

[dougedwards]

Thank you Ed. I may have missed the question pertaining to any offspring being "cursed" by the sins of the parents. According to the scriptures "all of nature" is under a curse based on the fact that sin entered into the world through two people. All of the decendants of Adam and Eve are under this same curse along with all natural things. There is a scripture in the 8th chapter of Romans that states that "all of nature groans as if in child birth waiting for the second coming of our Lord Jesus the Christ."

There is also a scripture in the first chapter of 2 Peter that says that even before the foundation of the world was established, that God had predestined His Son, the perfect lamb without blemish, to enter into the world for it's salvation. The Bible also tells us through the writings of the aplostle Paul that not only did Jesus take on this curse for us but that He actually became the curse as He suffered on the cross. In other words, Jesus who became the curse, decended into hell and left the curse of all of our sins there where it belongs.

Today we know that the natural world around us is very imperfect. Not only i'ts inhabitants but also the very environment which produces hurricans and earthquakes among many other imperfect occurances. But we who inhabit this imperfect environment are saved from the "curse" when we denounce and repent of sin and accept the free gift of grace based on the sacrificial gift of the Lamb. Sounds incredible I know. I myself sometimes doubt my beliefs and believe my doubts. It is for this reason that we need to continue to encourage each other lest "other spirits" encourage us to depression and hopelessness.

Doug

[ozark]

Did Jesus dying on the cross not atone for all sins? I am no bible scolar but many believe that He paid for all sins.

[stubblejumper]

Doug, I agree with you 100%, the entire of creation is under the curse as a result of Adam's sin. The verses I referred to above simply state that God will not hold the sins of a father against his son nor of a son against his father. Each man will be judged according to his own actions and by what he has done with the sacrifice provided by Jesus.

Ozark, Jesus death did pay for all sins but this payment is appropriated to us as individuals through faith. The gift is offered to all but must be received through repentance and faith. Jesus said that on the final day many will say to him "Lord, Lord but I will say depart from me... I never knew you"

He also told of a tax collector and a Pharisee at the temple. The Pharisee stood before God with a haughty proud attitude while the tax collector cried out to God for mercy because he recognized his sins. Jesus said " I tell you that THIS man (the tax collector) went home justified, implying that the Pharisee did not leave justified.

As I understand scripture, the imputed righteousness of Jesus is available to all but it must be received through faith.

[dougedwards]

Very well put Ed. Yes Jesus did sacrifice for the sins of the world but every man or woman has been given a free will to reject that sacrifice.

For since by one man came death, also by one man came the ressurection of the dead. 1Corrinthians 15:21

Just as the father described in the parable of the prodigal son did not compell his lost son to stay at home neither does God compell us to accept His grace which leads to eternal life. Very fortunate for us that the Father welcomes us back home and sets us a place at His table even after we rebel and walk away from Him to live life our way. That is, once we humble ourselves and come to the awareness that we need Him for our every breath.

The sin of every man is covered. But not every man wishes to be covered. This fact should be evident by everything around us.

Doug

[dougedwards]

Not to dominate the conversation here, but to expound on the response to Rusty's original question more clearly... we can't discount the affect that an absent father has on a son. For example, a child that has a angrily and violently reactive father may view God in the same manner as he views his father as he reads such passages as:

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

Can you see how someone might interpret from this passage that God is reactive to his enemies in the same way that a father might react to a son with a type of vengence? What about a son who has been abandoned by a father? How does this son perceive God? We know that we can neither taste nor see nor actually hear or feel or smell God. God may not seem to be listening sometimes when our prayers seem to go unanswered. Has God abandoned this son the way that the natural father abandoned him? These types of questions come very naturally (whether internally or externally) to a son that has been abandoned by his natural father. Also there might be a question of God's affection for the son by allowing this son's father to duck out of the son's life. Surely God could have prevented it.

For some reason, in the contemporary Christian community, it has been percieved as blasphemy to even verbalize these types of thoughts concerning any particular person's view of God. We are somehow to just accept certain things on "faith" and not question our feelings. However it was God that gave us our feelings. This human quality is really an outward attribute that separates us from all animals. Most of our reactions in life are based on how we feel at the time. Why would we discount our feelings when it comes to our relationship with God?

Jesus had a divine understanding of all of this. He knew his disciples as individuals and related to them as such. After a three year tutorship with these students Jesus knew that they were about to graduate to another level of facing the world without Him being physically with them as Jesus would be taken into the hands of the Roman authorities to be tortured and murdered. Jesus took this last opportunity while in the upper room to clothe himself as a servant and wash the feet of the students and then Jesus said this:

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

When Christian men are able to share their actual feelings with each other they are showing the type of love that Jesus showed to his disciples by laying His very life down for them. Of course our feelings can be deceitful but that is the reason that we have each other. To listen and become sounding boards by showing care and concern for our brethren. We, as followers of Christ are commanded to love each other. It isn't a suggestion.

Sorry about the long post. Hopefully others might chime in.

Doug

[stubblejumper]

Doug

Today we will celebrate the 80th birthday of my dad and I have been reflecting on how blessed I have been to have the influence of this godly man in my life. What I take for granted many men would give everything for: a godly father that gave me as good a picture of God as is humanly possible.

He isnt perfect, and was very busy working while trying to support us but I know of no one else I would rather have for my father and I thank God for that.

I only hope to pass this onto my own children in my own fallible way.

[deadon]

Jan 13, 2011 17:43:18 GMT -5 stubblejumper said:

Doug

Today we will celebrate the 80th birthday of my dad and I have been reflecting on how blessed I have been to have the influence of this godly man in my life. What I take for granted many men would give everything for: a godly father that gave me as good a picture of God as is humanly possible.

He isnt perfect, and was very busy working while trying to support us but I know of no one else I would rather have for my father and I thank God for that.

I only hope to pass this onto my own children in my own fallible way.

You are right Sir, You are blessed. Thank God every day for your Father and your children will also be blessed Rusty

[stubblejumper]

Thank you Rusty, my prayer is that God will bless you as well.

[dougedwards]

There is a very good book that deals with this subject by the title of "Wild at Heart". One chapter in the book deals with "the wound" which implies that every man has been wounded emotionally by his own father. Of course that would also imply that we have also wounded our own children to some extent. The daughter of the great evangelist, Billy Graham, wrote in her book that her father was often distracted and aloof even when he was at home which wasn't all that often. She ended up marrying a man with those same qualities which ended in divorce. Even the best of us have failed our children in some way.

Ed, you are truly blessed to have a Godly father as an example for living. Tell him that the Christian men from Doug's Message Board wish him a happy 80th birthday!

Rusty, you haven't been cheated or cursed. Today is the first day for the rest of your life and each day we are able to choose how we will live that particular day. Somewhere along the way you learned to care for people. You are a good son to your mother and visit her often. You are also a good friend to me and I truly appreciate your friendship. We only have a limited amount of days to appreciate each other. I need to be reminded of that often.

Doug

[stubblejumper]

Rusty

I found that when I had my own children and gave of myself to them the faults of my own father shrunk considerably in my eyes. My dad was not perfect, he was absent from the house while working for most of my teenage years. I dont ever remember playing catch, hunting or any recreation with him, but as I get older I see things from another angle.

His father was not a nice man, his mother died when he was nine, he grew up in the thirties without a loving parent. When I consider his past, he has done an awesome job as a father. I have never heard him swear, lie, gossip, or even complain! He is the most (small h) holy man that I know. He is humble, generous and caring to his children.

So I decided that I could dwell on the lack of fun with him and feel cheated and mad or change that in my own life with my children. I spend hours each week with my kids because I know what it feels like if that is missing. I fall far short however of the character traits my father modelled for me.

I find that the more I give of myself, the better I feel and the less the "faults" of others bother me. I used to have all the answers...now I have children =)

[smokepole50]

Be grateful you have all that time with your children. I have had to work 2nd shift for the better part of the last 17 years. My work is very specialized (Semiconductor Industry) and when I moved my family back home to VA I was hoping that they would benefit from a rural environment and being close to their grandparents. I think they saw their grandparents as much when we lived in Greensboro. All it has gotten me is very little time with my boys. My oldest will be 18 on the 24th and I am sad that I have not had more interaction with him. I have to come home and be the strong hand in the family to back up my wife and it is not always fun. My youngest will be 15 this year and I have had even less time with him because of working 12 hour rotating shifts during his early years. My wife has kept them active in our church youth group and I am grateful for that because I think that has made a huge difference in their lives. Private Christan school 1-7 made a difference as well I am sure. It seems hunting season and vacation is the only time I have spent much quality time with them but as they get older Air-soft and video games have driven a wedge between them and hunting so that quality time has suffered. At times I wish I had remained in Greensboro, NC.

Time seems to fly by when your trying to make a living for your family. What you provide is never enough and you turn around twice and they are in college and almost gone.

Smokepole

[stubblejumper]

Smoke

I am blessed to live 2 miles from my work in a very rural setting and I get to see them every evening. I thank God for that almost every day.

My prayer is that things will work out to allow you more time with your boys.

Sounds like you might have to try your hand at a couple of new hobbies I hate video games but I find that if I play them with the boys they are much more likely to come hunting with me.