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Post by jims on Feb 22, 2009 20:17:29 GMT -5
Today I had some time so I tried loading sabotless. Some bullets that had given me trouble in the past I chilled. They went in too easily so I thought I would try them at room temperature. Actually that went well, about 30 pounds to 50 pounds pressure to load. Good so far. Knurled them, some went up to 85 pounds, some so much I could not get them started. This was with 3-4 seconds of knurling to just a light pass. Again OK, feeling pretty good about this.
I remember in the past it did not go this well. I was doing this without a breechplug in or powder etc. I put the breechplug in, no primer, no powder and tried again. It really got difficult. I understand the trapped air can only get out the breechplug now and around the grooves. When I have a wad and powder etc in and a dead primer the only way out for the air is past the grooves. This could pose problems. I never thought there would be this much difference.
The question, all you sabotless shooters have you noticed anything like this or have you not tried to load without the breechplug? Thoughts, comments, suggestions are awaited.
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 22, 2009 20:41:27 GMT -5
Jims,If i over knurl a all copper bullet and start it down, It will go a few inches and then it stops that is it. I have to almost beat it out. Thinking because it has less give then a jacket type bullet. Didn't really notice any diffrence with the b/p in or out, but i will try now that you metioned it.
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Post by sw on Feb 22, 2009 20:51:18 GMT -5
Jim,
In my 40 cal I knurl but the bullets go down moderately easily. The same with my 453 45 cal. I've run them down 1/2 way and then pushed them back out the muzzle. They were not obturated to the groove. I have knurled to where I used >100 lbs to get down. They also were not knurled to the groove. RB and I both found that very tight bullets didn't have good accuracy for us. My knurled bullets go down a little easier than most saboted bullets. The air is not being compressed - it is escaping thru the bullet/ groove openings.
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Post by Dave W on Feb 22, 2009 22:29:46 GMT -5
I think your 30-50 pounds will work, just guessing but I would say that is about how a 250 BE loads for me. A 275BE loads very similar to a saboted load in my .50 which is around 70 lbs. seating resistance, both are under sub MOA 200yd shooters.
The 300SST has given me trouble with occasional fliers, it is by far the hardest to start and seat as far as resistance, warmer weather makes it worse as far as resistance, it might be up around a 100lbs in above freezing weather. After shooting the 300XTP, which sizes differently due to the canelures, I believe SW is right about too tight of a fit shooting less accurately, the XTP loads like a 275 BE and it appears it solved the flier problem but I need a couple more groups to satisfy me completely.
I always load with the primer out. The only bullets I have gotten stuck in the barrel were the ones I tried to size with my barrel drop.
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Post by Harley on Feb 22, 2009 22:46:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can express this the way I want to, but here goes:
I think, with the .448 die, that I am resizing quite a bit smaller than I need to go. This results in more knurling needed in order to bring up the diameter of the bullet for seating. I knurl until the bullet, when placed on the upturned muzzle of the rifle, is not cupped by the bore. I think this extra knurling gives a tighter fit when the bullet is seated because the knurling itself is raised and thus more easily obturated into the lands when ramrodded.
The initial seating with a short starter is sometimes so difficult I'm afraid its not going to start; but, the subsequent push with the ramrod is relatively easy; I think that's because the starter has already made the "knurlings" conform to the lands and grooves. Or, something like that.
Harley
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Post by rbinar on Feb 23, 2009 3:08:15 GMT -5
8-)In what ever way you find it the best loading consistency is when the bullet seats with about the same pressure as loading a sabot.
I'm unable to tell you why this is the case but it has worked this way since the beginning. So in your experimenting when you find a method that allows about the same seating as a well sized sabot stay with that method.
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 23, 2009 8:15:20 GMT -5
When RB sent me my rifle it loaded easy till the last 6 or so inches, and was a great shooter. I desided to try to get the rifle to shoot un knurled bullets by lapping the barrel to full size [NEVER TRY TO FIX, WHATS NOT BROKE] in the end I am shooting knurled bullets, I don't know the pounds of pressure it takes to set seat the bullets, buts it heavy, I have found, the tighter the better. My rifle is a great shooter, but all things considered, I wish I had left it as Rick sent it to me. While it make no sense, I have had bullets, stuck half way down the barrel, and hammered them the rest of the way, and it didn't affect the accuracy  If the bullets goes down too easy, misfire. I now have my system down pat. I mic each bullet, load and fire. I have about 500 290gr Barnes Flat based TMZ, ready to go. |
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