Breech Plug Problem

[floyd]

I bought a new breech plug from Randy Wakeman online and when I got to the range I noticed I couldn't close the bolt with a primer on it. It would close when I took the primer out. I tried taking the breech plug out and putting it back in several times to no avail. I then went home and put my old breech plug in and the bolt would close with a primer. The I also tried swapping the vent liners between the plugs but the new one still wouldn't close with a primer. The only thing I could detect looking at the new breech plug was that the vent liner fit inside of the end of the breech plug and the old one the vent liner extended a bit over the end of the plug.

Has anyone had a similar problem? I also tried cleaning the gun with the breech plug out and that didn't help either.

[billc]

I guess I'd take my micrometer and start doing some close length comparisions of various parts of the BPs. Does a primer seat to the same depth in both BPs? I think there is a recent thread on relieving the primer hole in a BP.

[ET]

The vent liner will have no affect on seating the BP. The length on the BP from the mated surface to the bore and to the end of where the primer fits could be a deciding factor. The other factor for bolt travel is the fit of the primer into the BP. If the primer orifice is slightly smaller or a machining lip is left at the entrance for the primer on a BP then major resistance can be experienced in trying to close the bolt. I would first compare the primer pockets of both BP’s with a vernier caliper to see if any difference is found here.

Just a suggestion for an approach to try to find the problem.

Ed

[smokeeter]

Try a different primer from a different manufacturer, they are not all alike in size. I think the remingtons are the smallest.
You can also drill out the primer pocket with a "C" size drill bit (I believe) , it will allow the primer to seat deeper into the breech plug.

[Harley]

I can think of only two reasons for your problem:

1. You need to readjust the "headspace" for the new BP by turning the barrel out, then relocking the nut.
2. The primer is not seating far enough in the BP. I'd first pulll the BP and the bolt, put a spent primer in the bolt primer holder and try to force the bolt primer holder to touch the lip of the BP. If it won't do that it might indicate either that you are not as strong as the cam action of the closing bolt, or that you need to drill out (size "C" bit) the BP to accommodate the primer.

Harley

[Deleted]

I bought one from the same place and when I used it bolt wouldn't close. When I took it out and checked a primer wouldn't even start to fit Federal or Winchester. So I drilled it out with a size c drill bit (.242)and it doesn't seal 10 shots and the bolt was black. When I tightened the breech plug up it was one eighth turn off from the old one . And when I laid my old breech plug next to the new one they aren't exactly the same. I don't my old one available or I would post a picture. I don't even want to take a chance on one from Savage now. I wasn't even going to say anything to anybody. I think the point is if it is really a replacement part he shouldn't have to do anything. Rocky

[whyohe]

follow what ET said and take that measurment alos while you have it out stick a spent primer in your old/ original BP and see haw far it seats and then do the same with the new one and compair.

[Harley]

Cedar, you are right, of course, in wanting a replacement part to be exactly the same as the part it replaces. The truth is, though, that the BP's have variances. Even from Savage.

If, after using a "C" bit, Winchester and Federal don't fit, go to the CCI Magnum. It's a hotter primer, anyway.

Harley

[joe21a]

I usually use a diamond hone to polish the inside of the primer pocket.Takes longer than the "c" drill but I end up with a real tight seal and no black bolt. I made a custom drill for drilling the primer hole, just a bit smaller than the "c" drill.

[flinter1951]

I also got one with the same problem from the same source. Ask for a new breechplug. Primers will not go or even start in some. Just guessing but mine appeared someone forgot the final step in drilling out the primer hole to the proper size. Good luck, I kind of got the run around and finally had to go through Savage where it was cheerfully replaced.

[Buckrub]

Floyd, I have the exact same problem, though it's not an RW bp, it's a RB bp. I have not taken it out and drilled it, but I have acquired a "C" bit. I have put this off for some time, and soon I need to figure it out and fix it. My Savage BP fits fine with any primer. I have tried every primer except CCI, which I will use as soon as I find some locally. Some are better than others, but none work with the bushing bp. Well, they work but I have to RAM the bolt closed and it barely does. I am hoping, am pretty sure, that a little reaming out with the C bit will fix this. I just need to get 'a round tuit' and get it done.

[joe21a]

Be carefull with the "c" drill. Try not going all the way to the bottom of the primer hole, then reinstall and try it again. You want to get as snug a fit between the primer and the BP

[screwbolts]

Why are you guys using a "C" drill??? why are you not using a C chucking reamer or a .242 " chucking reamer?? A chucking reamer can be used by hand or Drill press or lathe. IMHO a drill will try to grab/bite, and be much harder to control the depth. Chucking Reamers are designed to make ROUND holes, ;D Drills are notorious for three sided out of round holes.

Ken
CNY

[Harley]

I've never used a chucking reamer mainly because I never before heard of it. Sounds good.

Harley

[Richard]

If a machinist wants to get a straight concentric hole for a super fit of say..........a precision pin, he would drill ghe hole maybe a couple of thousants undersize, then go in with a chucking reamer of the precise size he needs to get the desired fit. The reamers cut on the sides, rather than at the tip. Like Screwebolts said, they will not "grab" like a drill bit will. Fortunately, since the "C" drill is only "slightly" larger than the existing hole and is not removing much metal, the use of a drill press can negate the minimal effects of grabbing.
Richard

[edge]

All good ideas, and regarding a drill grabbing, a new sharp drill is worse than a dull drill. You might consider stoning the edge for a more negative attack angle....and keep the rpm's slow to avoid chatter.

As noted by screwbolts, drilled holes are not very round.

edge.

[lc]

"All good ideas, and regarding a drill grabbing, a new sharp drill is worse than a dull drill. You might consider stoning the edge for a more negative attack angle....and keep the rpm's slow to avoid chatter."

IM experience: If your going to stone or kiss with sanding block be careful dont it spinning in the drill press it'll be instantly to small better off just kiss by hand .

[edge]

Actually I would be stoning the lip:


edge.

[joe21a]

I get an almost perfect primer hole using a undersized drill and a #5 tapered pin reamer Small end is .2409" and the big end is .2994". Most it needs is a little buffing after that.

[lc]

Thank you for clarifying my misreading.I was once using a C drill bit on the lathe to drill and countersink 209 primer in 45-70 brass ,C bit was to large put a sanding block to it and instantly it was drilling to small of a hole.

[screwbolts]

This is a simple explanation of Reamer verses drill from Wikipedia:

Reaming versus drilling to size

The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise diameter) and may not have the requisitely smooth surface finish for certain engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can perform excellently in many cases—usually producing sufficiently accurate holes for most applications—sometimes the stringency of the requirements for the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two operations: a drilling to slightly undersize, followed by reaming with a reamer. The planned difference between the drill diameter and the reamer diameter is called an allowance. (It allows for the removal of a certain small amount of material.) The allowance should be < 0.2 mm (.008 in) for soft materials and < 0.13 mm (.005 in) for hard materials. Larger allowances can damage the reamer. The drilled hole should not be enlarged by more than 5% of the drilled diameter. Drilling followed by reaming generally produces hole geometry and finish that is as close to theoretical perfection as possible. (The other methods of hole creation that approach nearest to perfection under certain conditions are boring [especially single-point boring] and internal cylindrical grinding.)

I have to admit that I have used a chucking reamer to enlarge a .510 hole with spiral thingies in it to .562 in one pass of a chucking reamer. ;D that is a .030 cut. and I fed the reamer by pushing with the tail stock, while loosely holding it from turning with a tool holder

Ken
CNY