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Post by huntrrr on Feb 22, 2009 7:26:45 GMT -5
I have just been to the range four times with my new ml ss laminate. I am seeing a pattern developing and would like any input from the more experienced smokeless shooters.I have tried several combinations and seem to be getting similar results.
hornady xtp 250 & 300 with both short black mmp and the hph 12 win 209. good and tight fit but loadable. shot this combo at 50 &100 yds . First two shots about touch then the 3rd will always be off. At fifty yards the third shot will be off by 1 inch or so and at 100 about 2-3 inches. I am waiting a full 15 min. between shots temp was about 40 deg. I've tried starting with a clean barrel and shot this same combo & after 15 20 shots on the barrel. same story.
similar results with 300 BO with orange mmp with 65 gr imr 4198
I'm wondering if I should start by changing the powder charge 1 grain at a time or should I look at different bullets primers or sabots. Bedding?
I can sit down on the same bench and shoot .3-.4 inch 5 shots groups with two of centerfires I hunt with so Its not me or the bags I'm shooting off of.
The other day after feeling frustrated ( a little) I picked up the old Thompson and shot a group with 777 300 gr expander at just under an inch of the same bench.
Guess its just more time to find the right combo.
Just wanted some advise Thanks ..... Huntrrr
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 22, 2009 7:42:04 GMT -5
Looks like you have the basics covered from what you said.
Is your over-all POI shifting at all? If it is, I would look at your scope and its' set up. If not, you may have barrel contact with the stock. It could be many things I guess. Start simple. Try 50 yd groups with open sights.
Others will chime in I'm sure.
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Post by huntrrr on Feb 22, 2009 7:44:44 GMT -5
I forgot to mention the loads ive tried so far in detail the 250 & 300 xtp's I've shot with N110 41,42,44 gr. 40,42,45 grs. 5744.
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Post by huntrrr on Feb 22, 2009 7:47:22 GMT -5
Thanks yea POA is dead on Ive double checked the warne bases and rings I have a leupold VX-L 4.5 - 14 scope .
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Post by tar12 on Feb 22, 2009 8:16:03 GMT -5
I have found that 2 shots being good and the 3rd one out to a issue of either not waiting long enough or the MMP sabots inconsistancy.Try the RCR and the BCR.You will be pleaseantly surprised.
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Post by huntrrr on Feb 22, 2009 8:20:14 GMT -5
I have some black crushed ribs they are way to loose with the .452 bullets I was going to try the BO or another .458 bullet with them on the next trip. Thanks
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Post by younghunter86 on Feb 22, 2009 9:54:38 GMT -5
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Post by jims on Feb 22, 2009 10:08:13 GMT -5
It could be the MMP sabots as some suggest and have found. On my part I think I shoot too quickly with a warm barrel. The reason I say that it is always the third shot, if there were something wrong with the sabots I think it would be more random, sometimes the second shot or the first shot. That is unless the MMPs are more affected by heat than other sabots.
It is really not a hunting concern, there I only get one shot a season and that out of a cold barrel. I just hate it on groups when I have winners going only to lose it on the third shot. I should just limit myself to two shot groups, it shoots those very well.
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Post by screwbolts on Feb 22, 2009 10:10:46 GMT -5
I have some black crushed ribs they are way to loose with the .452 bullets I was going to try the BO or another .458 bullet with them on the next trip. Thanks Try some plain Harvester sabots, that will tighten the .452 load up some. you can also knurle the .452 bullets to tighten up the BCR. I just don't like the crush rib sabots, MHO. ;D but I must also say I have never tried them with a .457/458 bullet either.  Ken Central NY |
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Post by dwhunter on Feb 22, 2009 10:18:35 GMT -5
I have found that 2 shots being good and the 3rd one out to a issue of either not waiting long enough or the MMP sabots inconsistancy.Try the RCR and the BCR.You will be pleaseantly surprised. I have to agree with Rick try the Harvesters it should change everything. |
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Post by ozark on Feb 22, 2009 10:26:46 GMT -5
My brand of logic tells me that it has to be a heat or fouling problem. The barrel may expand enough to make it touch the stock somewhere. But every shot is a third shot following the previous two. If you are swabbing after each shot try eliminating that phase to see if that could be the cause. Trouble shooting is making step by step checks until the culprit is found. I know everyone knows this but sometimes we get so deep in the forest we can't see the trees. The consistency of a third shot tells us the problem. We only have to learn the language it is using to understand. My guess is it is heat related.
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Post by bloodtrailer on Feb 22, 2009 12:18:29 GMT -5
I have the same problem with one of my savages   but in hunting the first shot is what counts |
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Post by mshm99 on Feb 22, 2009 12:23:11 GMT -5
I agree with Ozark. You can Still use a cooling rod in the winter,with out the ice,if it's cold out side. If you save your targets,and I'm guessing you do,You are seeing a predictable pattern .Are you starting with a clean barrel? Do you swab or clean between shots? A lot of unanswered questions here. Does your MLII like dirty or clean?
mshm
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cgg
Spike
Posts: 48 
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Post by cgg on Feb 22, 2009 17:25:45 GMT -5
Another vote for trying the "regular," smooth, short Harvester sabots. I wasted a lot of time trying to get MMP sabots to shoot--Short Blacks, HPH12's, HPH24's & Orange ones-- and my rifle just doesn't like them.
With .452 bullets the Harvester Crush Rib is too loose in my Savage. And the Red Crush Rib is tight enough, but does not shoot well.
Harvester Black SB's and 300 grain/.452 XTPs with RL7 or H4198 finally gave me good consistent accuracy--shot some nice little "clover leafs" this weekend.
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Post by tar12 on Feb 22, 2009 22:16:50 GMT -5
I should have clarified my answer a little more.I have found it to be with out exception heat related when 2 group and 1 goes out.I have also found sabot thickness inconsistancies in the MMPs time and time again.
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