Sterile Cockpit

[sw]

:)This relates to incorrect loading of a smokeless MLer. I've done it and ruined a barrel and didn't help my face. Others have done it, and one has lately.
This is where "Sterile Cockpit" comes in. As a flight instructor, I teach my students(and passengers) that from the time I taxi onto the runway until reaching a safe altitude(at least 1000' above the ground or higher) or am out of the traffic area that no conversation is to occur unless it affects the safety of the flight. Likewise, when coming in for a landing, from appx 10 miles out until off the runway at an uncontrolled airport or until stopped after taxing at a controlled airport: no extraneous talk.
The same should go for loading a muzzleloader. The "ONLY" timeS I have messed up loading is when I have allowed myself to get out of sequence, usually due to interuptions from others. All these good ideas being mentioned on other threads appear helpful(and I plan to adopt some of what's being written) but don't forget to insist on NO interuptions.

[DBinNY]

I have not double loaded a gun but I have no doubt that reading this board has made me think about it and made me do things more safely. People sharing there bad experiences, even when they are not overly proud of them, serves a positive purpose and others benefit from it.

[ET]

As silly or over-kill as this sounds, if I have my cell phone with me at the time I leave it in my vehicle and periodically check it if expecting an important phone call. That check is usually done when my barrel is empty and cooling. Just trying to eliminate any tempting possible distractions.

Ed

[rbinar]

8-)It may be a good idea to take advantage of the system. It can be done by using the hole that runs the length of the barrel and breech plug.

With the bolt open look down the barrel and see the small dot that is made by light passing through the vent liner. When you don't see the dot the barrel can't be loaded. I get a few looks as I look down the barrel but I've got used to it. In bright light the bolt may have to be positioned in the light and the muzzle shaded by hand. In dim periods you might have to use the thumb and fore finger to make a light shield for your eye but the hole is always there and visible when the barrel is clear.

If you use a witness mark on the ramrod and the above system it is a safe system. But no system is infallible. The witness mark is many times neglected. Perhaps this is because many loads are used with different depths. If so use duct tape to make temporary marks.

I'm in no way an expert in safety so you may see flaws in the system. If so suggestions are requested. I feel the point Steve is making (No unnecessary distractions and a simple process) is very important to us all.

[chuck41]

Feb 21, 2009 1:39:40 GMT -5 rbinar said:

. . . . . . . . . . . . .
I feel the point Steve is making (No unnecessary distractions and a simple process) is very important to us all.

Absolutely! The "light hole" is not real practical for those of us without the third pillar screw, but a consistent program and attention to details certainly is essential.

I have a ramrod that is the length to be flush with the end of an empty barrel. It goes in before any loading to verify that empty barrel. It also has witness marks for appropriate loads that are checked after the load is put into place. I know myself enough to know that just one check ain't enough for me.

ET's suggestion about cel phones is a good one. Fortunately for me the range I use is just barely out of cel phone coverage so that is not a problem, but it sure could be.

[Al]

as a side note, SW's advice goes with the reloading bench too, one can never be too careful.

[rbinar]

Feb 21, 2009 2:00:49 GMT -5 chuck41 said:

Feb 21, 2009 1:39:40 GMT -5 rbinar said:

. . . . . . . . . . . . .
I feel the point Steve is making (No unnecessary distractions and a simple process) is very important to us all.

Absolutely! The "light hole" is not real practical for those of us without the third pillar screw,

I find the hole with no attempt to remove the bolt. It can be seen with the bolt still in the receiver but opened.

[wilmsmeyer]

Yes have a system! Like Chuck, my ramrod is perfectly flush with the muzzle when unloaded/unobstructed.

I ALWAYS drop the rod down before I shoot. If I put my gun away loaded, I tag the barrel with a big, orange target dot that says "LOADED"

I have a permanent witness mark. When I am not shooting my usual loads, I am usually very close to it.

I load ALL shots at home or in camp and put them immediately in a speedloader. The complete load is in there! I do not bring loose bullets, powder vials and sabots on the bench. SPEEDLOADERS only.

I am not too cocky to say that I will never double load my gun....but close to a 1000 shots on this gun and who knows how many with my previous ML's

Witness marks. Use them.....it's your LAST reasonability test. Use your tools!

[ozark]

Unsafe loading is as dangerous as crashing an airplane. I like SWs thoughts on this matter. I used the rod length and reference marks to determine if the load was in place or not. My own idea of point of no return was primer loading. When I picked up a primer it was checkpoint for me. Before inserting the primer I would double check everything for safety. Only if certain of the load etc. would I insert that primer. This STOP/LOOK/AND LISTEN checkpoint was my personal go/nogo decision time. Put another way, I used the insertion of primer as a final checkpoint before reving her up and start rolling with complete peace of mind that all I could do was done. One may survive a plane crash or some carelessness with loading but prevention and self dependability is the safest way to reach old age all together.

[olegburn]

Another important step:
When primer inserted in the bolt and bolt is ready to be closed-
BEFORE you close it- slide the safety into half safety.
It will help prevent accidently snagged trigger or slam fire as it happened to some in the past.
I can't agree enough with SW how distractive conversations with others can be.
I mentioned in Richards "Good,bad and ugly..." post that maybe moderators will agree to start a permanent post relating to safety with muzzleloaders and guns in general.
IMO,it will be worth it.

[ozark]

I agree olegburn. good point

[joe21a]

All of these idea are good and would eliminate this problem. The problem lies on the trigger man and cutting a corner. I tend to be overly cautious but I hope it keeps me from having these problems, It has worked for over 40 years of ML shooting. Develop a safe loading and shooting routine and stick to it all the times.

[bigmoose]

IMO you can't take too many safety measures, since the high price, of carelessness is too high.
Like Wilesmeyer, I pay attention to the witness marks on my ram rods, the first thing I do when getting a new RR is mark it, it can't lie.
If I talk to a friend at the range, its after I fire a charge, and have an empty rifle, than step back from the bench, that way I know I must start my procedure from the beginning.
Its hasn't happened to me yet, however I am at the age, were I once put the orange juice in the dish cabinet, but the orange juice can't blow up in my face.

[ozark]

If you find yourself wondering if you are safe or a hazard to yourself and others then come sit in the bleachers with me.
Cheer the team that is still on the field. The cushion is soft and you will find the aroma of perfume more pleasant than the sweat and grime of those players on the field.

[screwbolts]

All of you are right on the money at making your system work! ;D

Many years ago I decided that when I was shooting with a group of people that I would verbally announce every action. This might seem over kill but I am talking about 22s, Muzzleloaders and up to and including 2 (two) of my 50 BMG singles being on the line.

It goes Like this: Action open, Action cleared, round loaded, ( being both uppers are of the DJ Habitual Tinkering plans, the Bolts have then been screw in with a nice cartridge in it's shell holder) Cocked, safety on, action closed, then when ready to light it up! On target, Safety off! (we actually wait for conformation that everyone know you just took the safety off before we light them up) then you may fire.

Everyone in my family knows the routeen and no one feels uncomfortable announcing it, this has carried over to all our shooting ;D

My neighbors now announce it when they are at my range.

Ken
CNY

[KerryB]

I use a silver aluminum Knight range rod. I use a red ring on the rod made with a permanent sharpie marker to show a loaded barrel. I also use a black ring higher up the ramrod that shows an empty barrel. That prevents me from having to look down the barrel of a firearm which is something that i was taught to never do if possible. I know it is safe, as is RB's method where the bolt is open, but i try to avoid anything that makes me uncomfortable when it comes to firearms. I have reloaded since i was a kid and that instilled extreme safety in me since i was young. I have shot muzzleloaders all my life and have been lucky that i have never had an accident. The only incident i have had was forgetting to drop the powder before i loaded the bullet, but my red ramrod ring ended up inside the barrel, so i knew immediately what i had done and i just pulled the breechplug, pushed the bullet back out and started over. Also my ramrod has an extra large silver T-handle which is a big flag sticking out of the end of my barrel and should keep me from shooting it down range. I think you guys are correct about the distractions, because the time that i forgot the powder load, i had leaned my rifle in the corner to go answer the phone and lost my train of thought. Just goes to show.........................

[bloodtrailer]

I was taught the LASER ( don't point the barrel at anything you don't want destroyed(your :ohead!!!), as if a laser)method, don't point or look down a possibly loaded barrel use the ram rod a 22in rod will be flush with the barrel when unloaded(power rods T handles fold the T) Range rods need to be witness marked. SAFETY FIRST YOU CAN"T HUNT OR SHOOT IF YOU DEAD OR IN THE HOSPITAL! You would not smoke, joke or other wise let your self be distracted at the reloading bench, so why take loading your muzzle loader with less than full concentration, ANY DOUBT PUSH IT OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigmoose]

Ozark,
No bleachers for me, I hope to go from the field to the grave.

But I'm sure have heard the saying.......man plans and God laughs

I still have six months to go, I'm looking for an excuse, to take out my clothes and see what will fit in a new bag.

[younghunter86]

I've never double loaded but did the ramrod launch with and inline. I think using a range rod with T handle will prevent that from every happening again. Not to mention the fact that when at the range the last thing I do before shouldering the gun is to determine the exact location of the range rod. In addition I do like rb mentioned and always make sure that I can see light through the breach plug before loading. A little bore light that you can buy for less than $10 makes this a lot easier.

[Buckrub]

SW, good advice, but how am I gonna ask "Where are my glasses?".........

[sw]

Feb 21, 2009 17:16:02 GMT -5 Buckrub said:

SW, good advice, but how am I gonna ask "Where are my glasses?".........

"The Pilot" can ask such a question, but the passenger can just act like he's looking for traffic.

[joe21a]

Before I retired I had to qualify every year with a hand gun, Ar15 and Sniper rifle. Part of the range procedure ( with rifle) was bolt open check the chamber for round and then look down the barrel for any obstructions. This was a safety item as a lot of people had access to our weapons when they were not in use. I still do this as a force of habit when I first start my range session.