PacNor Questions

[tiswell]

Stock barrel is driving me nuts! I can put together a good (sub 2") group or 2 followed by a 4" group. This is not where I want to be. I am considering a PacNor for my next step. When I started out on this venture I wanted to end with a rifle that would shoot a Barnes bullet well because of their reputation for great terminal performance. I would now expand that to include a Barnes original. I was thinking about staying with a .50 cal, but that is not in stone. What are the pros and cons of a .50 over a .45 and visa verse? What bore size and twist rate work well? What kind of session to session consistency and accuracy do these barrels exhibit? I like the current weight and balance of the rifle now so I would be looking to maintain that feel. Looking for suggestions on what to order. I would appreciate your input.

Thanks, Bill

[fishhawk]

In my opinion the best way to go is the Pacnor .45. With this barrel the easiest starting point is shooting the .40 195 Barnes in a non-crush rib lt. blue Harvester sabot over 58-63gr. of H4198. This load is deadly to 300+ yards. Zeroed at 200yds. drop at 300 is 7-10in. The recoil is less than trying to load a .50 to shoot anywhere near that flat. The .40 195gr. Barnes is more than enough bullet for anything on this continent. If you want more bullet such as for elephants or monsters from outer space you can still go sabotless with heavier .45 bullets.

[rangeball]

If you go .45 and plan to hunt, make sure saboted .40s are legal where you are. Some states have a .45 not including the sabot minimum.

If legal I'd go .45 all the way. Can shoot the heavier bullets if you need to kill T rex, and plenty for deer/elk, etc if you shoot the 195-200s.

[mike3132]

Oct 20, 2010 8:17:12 GMT -5 tiswell said:

Stock barrel is driving me nuts! I can put together a good (sub 2") group or 2 followed by a 4" group. This is not where I want to be. I am considering a PacNor for my next step. When I started out on this venture I wanted to end with a rifle that would shoot a Barnes bullet well because of their reputation for great terminal performance. I would now expand that to include a Barnes original. I was thinking about staying with a .50 cal, but that is not in stone. What are the pros and cons of a .50 over a .45 and visa verse? What bore size and twist rate work well? What kind of session to session consistency and accuracy do these barrels exhibit? I like the current weight and balance of the rifle now so I would be looking to maintain that feel. Looking for suggestions on what to order. I would appreciate your input.

Thanks, Bill

tiswell,

Before you spend the extra money what load are you trying to shoot? Powder, bullet, sabot and primers please. Mike

[dave d.]

:)Billy going to a pacnor barrel will bring a smile to your face. I prefer the .45 with sabots for the use of lighter weight bullets and my favorite the lean, mean, 195 fighten machine ;D. Goodluck with your choice

[tiswell]

Mike3132,
I have tried 300 XTPs in a HPH12 over 44 grains of 5744 and fed 209a's, Barnes 290 TEZ's in both a RCR and a HPH12 over 44 gr of 5744 and fed 209a's. Harvestor Scorpions in a RCR over 44 gr of 5744 and fed 209a. Barnes originals in a BCR over 62 grains of RL7 and a CCI mag primer. Loads are weighed on RCBS 505 and checked on Vicon digital scale. Rifle has laminated factory stock and has been pillar bedded with Devcon steel putty with a third pillar added, oversize(.250" thick) recoil lug, front base relieved to clear lug, front base screws checked for length, Leupold VXII 3x9 scope, barrel has has about 600 lapping strokes with JB. After cool rod removal, I patch with a few drops of bore cleaner and follow with clean patch. I use a bullet aligner .001" smaller than the bore with the nose profile of Barnes Original. I thought I was onto something with the last load. During one session I put 2 in the same hole and a third, 1/2" away before the 4th shot dropped out to open up to a 1+1/4" 4 shot group. The next day the same load yielded 3 shots in a 4"group. One variable is the last group was without cool rod. It was in the mid 60's last evening and I waited 10 minutes between shots. The first shot out of the barrel was 2" to the right of the group shot the previous day. The other variable is the adjustable nut behind the trigger although during the last 2 outings I have been holding the forend in my hand supported by sand bags and it feels real solid to me. I am hoping for a shot at under 100 yds (as most have been) season starts tomorrow!

Thanks, Bill

[boarhog]

I assume that you have checked all scope and mount issues? Perhaps try another scope?

When groups start good, and fall apart, I always suspect barrel heat softening the sabots. Seems like starting over the next day with a cool barrel should put the shots back into the original group, and that brings me back to the scope.

Do you lightly clean between shots, or shoot "dirty"? If you do NOT clean, how many shots do you take between cleanings? Have you checked the vent liner lately? Most of us replace the old one when it gets larger than .035.

These things can drive a person bonkers! My two stock 50s both like the XTPs, SSTs, and FTX bullets in the MMP Short Black sabot (MMP part #50045). The 300 gr Barnes OR works well with the Harvester Blk CR, but the load was hard to find. One rifle likes 44 gr A-5744, the other is a duplex 10/55 N-110/RE-7. Using 5744 as booster instead of N-110 does just as well.

If you decide that you can't live without a Pac-Nor barrel, you will be happy. I love my 45 P-N.
Boarhog

[zakjak221]

Tiswell,

Don't know what state your in for Reg.'s,but you may want to consider a 50 cal PacNor.
I was on the fence like you too, but had so many .458/.452 bullets on hand I went with the .510 bore,26",6 grove,1-18 twist bead blasted PacNor. (Jeff from Iowa Spec)
Illinois requires a 45 cal. bullet & I don't want to resize & knurl bullets.
Jeff gets great accuracy with his gun out to 300 or 400 yds-you can read some of his posts or PM him and he'll tell ya.
This spec will allow you to shoot both .452 & .458 bullets with the PacNor accuracy.
Barrel is shipping tomm. and ran $385.00 plus shipping.

My two cents--Mark

[mike3132]

bill,

try 64-65 grains of R7 with those 290 & 300 grain bullets. also drill out the carbon in the breech plug and check your ventliner. wait at least 15 minutes between shots.

you might try 41-43 grains of 5744 too. Good luck, Mike

[Deleted]

try shooting with a dirty barrel, my stock .50 wouldnt shoot for crap unless I left the bore alone. the .45 pacnor likes it dirty as well, it takes about five foulers to get accuracy

[Chris Champion]

Oct 20, 2010 16:41:45 GMT -5 @hillbill said:

try shooting with a dirty barrel, my stock .50 wouldnt shoot for crap unless I left the bore alone. the .45 pacnor likes it dirty as well, it takes about five foulers to get accuracy

tiswell...hillbill took the words right out of my mouth. Try shooting that Barnes Original load with a fouled barrel.

[tiswell]

Thanks guys,
Ventliner has about 10 shots on it. I will try it fouled this weekend. And I will tinker with adjusting powder charge weights and if all else fails I will try another scope before I break open the piggy bank for a new barrel.

[trooper1]

It took me a while to find my rifles sweet spot. My rifle seems to like 38gr of vv110 and the remington 300gr 45/70. Many on this board go for the fast and furious. I just want to feel confident to 200 yards. Keep trying your gun will shoot great once you find what it likes. I still get 2050 fps and a 150 yard zero gets me a 6 inch hold over at 200.

[Richard]

Trooper1.............I assume that "Fast and Furious" was directed my way??? ;D ;D I remember the slogan from my PD days: "Speed Kills!". So whats wrong with a 3"+ 100 yd. sight in and only being 4" low at 300 yds.?
(and yes, a .45 cal. 195 Barnes at 3,000 fps can do this!)
Tiswell...........I'm only bustin' his chops! Everyone has their own theory and ways to get the job done. I agree with the fact that slow heavy projectiles can kill as well as flat shootin' fast ones. With today's range finders, if you know your settings and can accurately range your target, a dead critter should result. I personally like fast and flat shooting rifles where I don't have to carry the range finder
Whether you go with a .50 or .45 Pac-Nor, you will enjoy consistency like you never had with a stock Savage barrel! A few people have gotten Savage barrels that performed fairly well but Everybody who gets a Pac-Nor has a big smile on their face when they start shooting!
Richard

[tar12]

Tiswell,
You do not need a Pac-Nor to kill deer.And this is not a Pac-Nor bashing post as I own one. I wonder how many deer have went down by way of the lowly stock .50? It is in the 100s for my tribe alone. I have owned several of them myself and have set up and shot many,many more. I have yet to find one that could not be tuned into a solid 200 yd performer.That is in its stock configuration. Several have been solid 300 yd performers after modifying.All leave the factory shooting 1.5 or less.If you cant get that you are doing something wrong!Many think the word smokeless automatically equates centerfire performance.Well, thats a pipe dream as it requires some effort.Very few have had a none shooting piece of $%^& straight from the factory.While that may be true,it is a very small minority and not the rule and is taken care of by Savages wonderful customer service.The Pac-Nor does have distinct advantages but it also requires more expense to go sabotless and that in its self presents sizing issues as it has to be very precise to work.Thats why so many who where gung-ho about sabotless turned back to sabots for their ease of use.But this may change with the advent of the Swinglock die... ;D Just trying to lay it all out there for you....be paitent and I am sure you will find the sweet spot for your .50,unless you got another conservative $ 500-$600 burning a hole in you pocket! ;D