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Post by Harley on Oct 15, 2010 17:48:41 GMT -5
Everyone loves to post successes, but I either have to stay quiet or tell about my last two days in the woods, a story that brings me no glory. Wednesday: climbed into my lock-on at 4:30pm; at 5:15 a doe came on the field at my right; she was at 34 yards; by the time I was certain it wasn't a forbidden button buck, she was at 46 yards; I drew on her broadside and she turned tail and walked away. I watched her go to the far side of the plot and lie down. 13 turkeys came on the field under me, pinning me. The doe got up and walked half way round the field before going into the woods. The turkeys left; 45 minutes later the same doe came back on the field and started directly toward me, but veered into the woods at 49 yards. She had made a total of about 90% of the plot, but not the 10% I controlled. Thursday: In the stand at 6:30 am; at 8:00 a doe walked onto the plot directly opposite me and ran straight at me, stopping directly under my stand. I could look down through the stand and see her; she leisurely went on into the woods and was gone. I decided to do something I'd been thinking about for years: cut a deer "highway" to guide deer past me. I have a lock-on just off a food plot, but haven't been able to hunt it in three years because the briars and blackberry bushes are impenetrable. So, I took an old-fashioned swingblade and cut a path maybe 40 yards long through the woods and past my stand to the plot. Thursday PM: The TV antenna at my cabin fell down when a guy wire rusted, so I spent the balance of the early afternoon putting it back up. By the time I was ready to get on my stand I was pretty much worn out, but climbed in at 4:45PM. An unexpected cold front and high winds started up and for the next two hours I was holding on and shivering. I was wearing shorts and a thin shirt under a leafy net and had to argue with myself to keep me there. About 10 minutes before full dark two does fed by in front of me; I ranged a clump of grass at 30 yards and said I'd shoot if one of them came close to it. Well, one did; she actually stepped on the clump. So, I drew back and shot. I missed her clean and saw a puff where the arrow stuck in the dirt. It's a tribute to the quietness of the Z7 that the doe only took a small hop, then resumed grazing past. The second doe wasn't alarmed, either. I nocked another arrow and spotted a break in the foliage that I ranged at 38 yards; when the doe entered that area I shot and again saw the ground puff. She kicked up her heels, then settled down to graze. By then it was too dark to shoot and I watched both deer walk slowly away. Climbing down, I found both arrows, so at least I saved $50. On the 55 mile ride home I kept replaying those two shots; I think I was just worn out. I know I was struggling with my form and had a hard time keeping the Anchor Sight in alignment. My really big mistake, though, was a rookie one: I threw up the bow and aimed at the deer rather than a SPOT on the deer. Now, I'm sitting here thinking maybe bowhunting isn't for me, that I'm not good enough to do it. That's in spite of shooting a bow for almost 60 years and killing many deer over those years. Confidence is a shaky thing. The reality, though, is that I've already missed the one week ML season in favor of the bow, and will give up the entire rifle season if I have to while I am trying for that bow kill. Harley
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Post by deadon on Oct 15, 2010 17:58:53 GMT -5
Harley, in shorts on a cold windy evening, I could not even shiver the bow to a full draw. You are still the man ;D Rusty
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Post by tdillinger on Oct 15, 2010 19:48:48 GMT -5
That's bow hunting. Missing is part of the game. I posted a week back or so how I missed a doe at 45 yds walking with two other sets of eyes watching me. I was able to nock another arrow but never felt like i could do a second shot without being busted. Yesterday I arrived to stand 1.5 hrs prior to light. I see 4 does in the am between 8 and 9. I stat in stand until 3 pm the sun is starting to warm up now from 38* to 67* or so. I climb down and mover closer to the river 15 yards to find some shade from the heat. I have a fallen tree i have cleared the leaves from so i can move without being heard and the cover is good as not to be seen. Not 15 minutes goes by in the heat of the day a 9 point sneeks in on me in the river, due to cover, canopy, thicket, and trees etc i do not see him until he is 20 yards away. So gently i grasp my bow removing eye contact for the second. I am looking for the deer and attaching my release without looking for the d loop. I attach the release but i have lost site of a deer 20 yards away from me. thinking he was behind two good size trees abscuring his view, i draw. Suddenly i see him bolt, he blended in so well I could not find him in the shade. Off he went, I doubt i will see him again. I have spent the entire summer till now mapping this nice mature bucks movement with 2 different trail cams. I blew it because i was not paying attention thinking nothing would have been moving. I have and will sit in stand sun up to sun down. I generally add ten pounds of wieght during hunting season because I sit so much. But I love the challenge and that heart race that makes me shake with excitement "buck fever". Thirty years now i have pursing whitetails, I am blessed to have so much time to commit to it hunting. I admire your efforts and wish you a pleasurable hunt. Its not the harvest as so much the process of being the hunter. I sir have more failures archery hunting than any other means guns etc. But I learn and screw it up all over again. Its that one time out of 10, 15 or 30 chances that you finaly make mark.
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Post by russkull on Oct 15, 2010 20:34:02 GMT -5
Wow! That sounds like an exciting few days. Combine all your posts(other forums), and you had a very busy few days. I am sure you were tired and I can imagine the could didn't help you one bit. I wonder if in the excitement you may have boosted or tried to help the arrow...? I know in the past you have done this, when tired. Don't lose hope. You bring home "that deer". Hope I am there for it.
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Post by lastofthebreed on Oct 15, 2010 21:23:28 GMT -5
one more thing.....how can it be a failure story?
you got out in the woods & got to do what we all love!
getting a deer is just a bonus......being out there in nature....thats the biggest win of all!!!!
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Post by Harley on Oct 15, 2010 22:22:48 GMT -5
You all make me laugh, and put me in a more optimistic mood; thanks for sharing your story, tdillinger. And you're right, lastofthebreed, just being out there beats staying at home to mow the yard.
Harley
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Post by deadeye on Oct 15, 2010 22:48:54 GMT -5
harley,reminds me of my 1st year hunting recurve from a treestand,i emptied a whole quiver with deer feeding without noticing the arrows hitting around them while feeding.after they moved off i got down& retrieved my dirty arrows& climbed back up,next doe came in about 1 hr later ended up in my freezer.it will happen for you!
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Post by sw on Oct 16, 2010 10:25:37 GMT -5
Harley, I'm in a serious mood so I'll post a serious comment. We all seem to cycle in and out of such behavior. The more game we see, think about, pass on, etc, the more we will tend to do the right thing when the time comes. Occasionally, I'll just take my recurve or x-bow and simulate shooting at the doe or whatever I plan to pass on. I'll aim, draw, etc and then let down. Fortunately, I live where this opportunity presents on most hunts(yesterday I passed on 2 8-pts, likely a 100" and a 120" deer, this morning on a doe and a fawn). Our limit of 2 buck/yr limits what I will shoot. Lots of season left. As I get older, as we all get older, the thought of long, tough tracking becomes less desirable so precise aiming and great broadhead selection become more of a selfish pursuit than even the concern for ethical hits which we all have. We've virtually all done the same thing as you did. Sorry. You'll likely be successful at a harvest your next time out.
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Post by Harley on Oct 16, 2010 11:56:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Steve.
I was just talking with my son, Russell, on the phone and he got me thinking about my choice of fixed pins rather than the slider I used to have. Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if those fixed pins contributed to my missing my shots. The Z7 is fast, which means I have 20,30 and 40 yard pins stacked very closely together. In good light, shooting at a stationary target, I have the time to focus on the correct pin for the distance. In low light on a slowly moving deer, the pins were blurred, contributing to my aiming at the entire deer rather than a spot on the deer. I also can't be certain I used the correct pin for the distance.
Have any of you had similar experiences? Or any thoughts on this?
Harley
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Post by smokeless77 on Oct 16, 2010 12:34:39 GMT -5
Harley
I use a 5 pin sight, The top pin I sight it in at 30 yards, and then I will shoot at twenty. It is One inch high at twenty yards. One pin out to 30 -35 yards. Maybe this may help.
John
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Post by Dave W on Oct 16, 2010 18:04:52 GMT -5
I have always liked some gap between the pins, close pins make for a cluttered sight picture IMO. I use to use pins set at 20-35-45 yds with slower bows. Todays bows are flatter shooting so that may not be an option. Currently use 30-40-50yd pins, but not real happy with that either. Think I might try two pins next year, 30&45yds.
Don't let it get you down Lloyd, I emptied a quiver many years ago on a nice buck. Don't think I have missed since then(jinxed myself now). Hopefully you will go on a similar streak.
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Post by Harley on Oct 16, 2010 18:57:17 GMT -5
Thanks, guys; I've spent the past several hours looking for, modifying and then installing my old slider sight. The only reason I had stopped using it was the slider chattered when I moved the distance arm, making it hard to be precise in my adjustments. Today I found what I think is an engineering error on the manufacturer's part: they had a thin nylon washer at a pivot point and it had deteriorated. I replaced it with a copper washer and it's better, still not great. Now I've boosted my confidence, telling myself, "of course I missed because of bad equipment choice."
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Post by tdillinger on Oct 16, 2010 19:25:25 GMT -5
I too use a five pin set at 20 and then every ten yds out to 60. Tight pins even at .19. I also get blurred at low light so i got glasses . When i miss I say i hit a limb.
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Post by DBinNY on Oct 16, 2010 19:44:06 GMT -5
One thing I do is to look around, make sure there is nothing around and practice drawing my bow and aiming at something about every 15 minutes. That way I stay "loose" and know what the sights are going to look like when I go to shoot at a deer under the various light conditions. Failure is part of bowhunting but you just have to be persistent.
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Post by bloodtrailer on Oct 16, 2010 21:40:27 GMT -5
Those who say they NEVER HAVE MISSED are those who have never hunted
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Post by Harley on Oct 17, 2010 6:38:45 GMT -5
Lastofthebreed, before buying my latest slider I used a pendulum just as you described yours; it took all the worry out of estimating distances out to about 30 yards with my older bow. I switched to my present slider because I liked its true glow in the dark sight pin and the 45* angle of that pin. I switched to the 5-pin sight after setting up a Z7 for a friend who had bought the 5-pin. I think that was a mistake on my part. In fact, yesterday I was trelling him about my misses with the 5-pin and he confirmed he had the same problem of the pins being too close together. He plans to drop three of the five pins to the bottom of the reticle to get them out of the way, then space the remaining two for some reasonable distances.
Harley
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Post by dougedwards on Oct 17, 2010 7:19:33 GMT -5
Harley.....I think that you have just described why bow hunting is so invigorating. NOTHING is guaranteed. Put that doe in front of a muzzleloader and she is venison for sure. Shooting at an angle from a tree stand at a grazing animal that might hear or smell you at any moment while sunlight diminishes is a challenge and I love it. Yesterday I pulled on a 6 point three times without shooting and also pulled on a doe who heard the brush of my coat as I drew back from only 12 yards away. She didn't blow but ran off a few yards into the brush and stood there for a while smelling the air. Each time out to hunt seems to teach a lesson. I know that you are an old guy who likes to learn new things. This is the sport for you!
Doug
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Post by Harley on Oct 17, 2010 9:34:53 GMT -5
Doug, I think I'm an old guy who has to re-learn old things. Harley
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Post by deadeye on Oct 17, 2010 11:21:37 GMT -5
harley,check your montec cs' vs the ss on poi,i found on both my bows the cs's were approx 4'' lower & i dont have a clue why.
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Post by Harley on Oct 17, 2010 11:57:30 GMT -5
Deadeye, I have never shot the SS version, so I can't compare; now that I have two dull CS's (missing two deer) I'll shoot them against my field points to confirm what I first found: They hit exactly where the 100 gn field points hit.
Harley
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Post by Harley on Oct 18, 2010 21:33:22 GMT -5
I set about zeroing for 20, 30 and 40 yards after mounting my slider, but - with my recent two misses in mind - had a revelation. With my relatively fast bow, I had learned that multiple pins are set too closely for low light selection and now see that the slider does not move smoothly and easily enough to change settings with one hand while a deer is steadily making its way along.
So, I set my slider for dead-on zero at 30 yards, then shot it at that setting at 20 and 40 yards. I found that from 0-30 yards I can aim where I want to hit ( + or - 2") and at forty yards I can hold on a deer's backstrap and drop ~ 8" into a vital area. For me, this makes the most sense. I now have no adjustments to make and no competing pins to distinguish.
What do you think?
Harley
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Post by Dave W on Oct 18, 2010 22:07:29 GMT -5
I set about zeroing for 20, 30 and 40 yards after mounting my slider, but - with my recent two misses in mind - had a revelaton. With my relatively fast bow, I had learned that multiple pins are set too closely for low light selection and now see that the slider does not move smoothly and easily enough to change settings with one hand while a deer is steadily making its way along. So, I set my slider for dead-on zero at 30 yards, then shot it at that setting at 20 and 40 yards. I found that from 0-30 yards I can aim where I want to hit ( + or - 2") and at forty yards I can hold on a deer's backstrap and drop ~ 8" into a vital area. For me, this makes the most sense. I now have no adjustments to make and no competing pins to distinquish. What do you think? Harley KISS Keep It Simple Stupid ;D Who ever thought of that had us hunters in mind. I like it! I have no idea why I have 3 pins on my bow, I don't hunt fields and I think I have took one deer over thirty yards in 30+ years of bowhunting.
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Post by deadeye on Oct 18, 2010 22:51:09 GMT -5
makes a lot on sense,but if have my luck you will come across the biggest buck of your life wide open shot@55yds ;D
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Post by Harley on Oct 19, 2010 8:38:21 GMT -5
Deadeye, I could have mentioned that I do have a 50 yard pin setting marked on the dial. Harley
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Post by dougedwards on Oct 19, 2010 9:05:26 GMT -5
I set about zeroing for 20, 30 and 40 yards after mounting my slider, but - with my recent two misses in mind - had a revelation. With my relatively fast bow, I had learned that multiple pins are set too closely for low light selection and now see that the slider does not move smoothly and easily enough to change settings with one hand while a deer is steadily making its way along. So, I set my slider for dead-on zero at 30 yards, then shot it at that setting at 20 and 40 yards. I found that from 0-30 yards I can aim where I want to hit ( + or - 2") and at forty yards I can hold on a deer's backstrap and drop ~ 8" into a vital area. For me, this makes the most sense. I now have no adjustments to make and no competing pins to distinguish. What do you think? Harley I am not sure of how fast your bow actually is but my New Breed Cyborg is rated 330 IBO and I am shooting 380 grain Maximas @ 60lbs with a 29.5" draw. When I set my slider pin at 30 yards I am almost 4" high at 20 yards. This is unacceptable to me because most deer seen are within 25 yards for me. I zero at 25 yards which puts me about an inch high at 20 yards and 3.5" low at 30 yards and about 7" low at 35 yards. I don't move my slider pin from 0-35 yard shots and only use hold over for 30-35 but then move directly to 40 yard setting and moving in 5 yard increments from there because drop is more pronounced at the longer distances. I HATE a multiple pin set up. I get confused enough with all the things I have to remember to do when the moment of truth arrives without having to remember which pin to focus on. Doug
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Post by Harley on Oct 19, 2010 11:10:32 GMT -5
Doug, my bow chronographs at 288 fps (at 57# draw weight and 29" draw lengyth) when shot three feet in front of the chrony. I would guess that differences in external ballistics would have many variables in addition to MV: arrow variables and the differing sighting geometry resulting from individual anchor points and facial structure.
It seems, though, that we are using the same approach.
Harley
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Post by Jed on Oct 19, 2010 19:30:05 GMT -5
Harley, I would love to have your streak of "failures!" I've been out 3 times, in good spots each time, and have yet to even see a whitetail!
So I've been skunked so far...but I remain optimistic about the next time!
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Post by Harley on Oct 19, 2010 21:16:32 GMT -5
Jed, I did see at least one deer the last three times on stand, but all in all I hunted many times in September and October without seeing anything. Only one person who hunts our 1100 acres killed a deer with the bow this entire year so far, and that was Russkull, who posts on this forum.
Now that rifle season is in, I'm the only one on the property bow hunting; the deer are quickly becoming more alarmed by all the noise and foot traffic, so I don't know if another bow shot is in my future, but I'm toughing it out.
Good luck to you, too.
Harley
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 21, 2010 5:22:25 GMT -5
Lot's of good comments and thoughts. My advice, for what it's worth is to set up stands for shots that will be closer then your self imposed maximum range. Say you practice all year and shoot good out to fifty yds...limit shots at game to perfect angles...opportunities at 30 yds or less. Practice from elevated platforms on deer sized/ shaped targets.
Still no one will always be completely successful...just have to put the odds in your favor and do due dillegence to be proficient. Since 1993 I have killed 12 deer cleanly with my bow, missed 2 deer cleanly and wounded and lost a nice buck. My 3 mistakes are still on my mind. One miss was at 25 yds thatI thought was 20. Other miss was extremely down hill from a high stand. Range finder said 35 yds but was realistically about 25 yds. PLUS, he was on to me and jumped the string at the shot. 2 feet over his back...super choke. The wounded deer...all my fault...took a slow walking shot at a broadside deer. Guessed a 6-8 inch lead and buried it in the shoulder blade.
Drawing on deer you do not intend to kill is also good practice at the art of being deceptive. When you do this, you are truley "passing" on the opportunity and you can almost say to yourself that you were successful that day.
I saw a guy doing what DB does one day....looking all around and drawing his bow....looking around...letting it down. Reminded me of the kid on the commercial who was in the bathroom practicing his quick-draw method in the mirror while some poor guy outside was waiting to go with terrible cramps....just pickin on you DB....been a while
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Post by redspinner3 on Oct 21, 2010 23:31:50 GMT -5
I use a slider marked from 15 to 60 yards have scope 3x mounted on it with wire cross hair and small circle fits 3" spot at 20 yards. I also use laser range finder Nikon 1/2 yards resolution . if i can i range deer before shooting or i know the range before shooting vary seldom miss. knowing the range and form are most important. practice, practice practice.
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