new brass- fuul resize or neck only?

[tpcollins]

I'm just getting into reloading and have a bunch of stuff on order. I've been reding a lot of online articles and there's a bit of conflicting data - go figure.

On new brass cases it is suggested to size the neck only to get upwards of 10 cycles per case. And if the rounds are shot from the same firearm, future resizing can be limited to just the neck as well. Then my brother-in-law who's been reloading for 30 years says he lubes and does a full size every time, trimming to length, and getting only a couple rounds per each case. He gave me a reloading book to read that's also 30years old and he probably has never been on an internet forum.

Is the best procedure to fully resize and trim every case? Seems like if you start trimming case and removing brass, something's getting pretty thin somewhere - probably why he throws them away after 2 rounds. The article I read about sizing the neck only says you can get 10 pounds per cases this way. Any help in pointing me to the correct direction would be appreciated. Thanks.

[billc]

I've only started with virgin brass one time and it was a 30-30. I full length size all the time and case life is cartridge specific in my experience. I only trim when the case needs it. 308s are good for about a dozen loadings and 300 Win Mags are good for 4 or 5 reloadings. As you noted there is someone who does it each way and swears by his way. Experiment within the published literature from the main manufacturers (Nosler, Sierra, Hornaday, RCBS, etc) find what works for you.

[whyohe]

if you are going to use it in only one gun neck only is better. it helps to keep trimming down and increases the life of brass. lets put it this way if you take a piece of brass and keep bending it what happens, it will eventually break, but if you only bend it slightly it will bend more times before breaking.

[joe21a]

I have always full length sized ,just because I did not want to buy another item and also I can help a friend out on a trip say to Newfoundland if his ammo is lost or forgotten. Unless your B.I.N. is loading supper hot loads he is wasting brass. I keep a good eye on my brass and have only thrown a few out when they showed signs that the head may be getting week. (ring on side of case) Get a new reloading book. I have an older book and the loads are very hot compared to my new book. So hot that most of the time I would use the min. load and it is plenty hot.

[lc]

There are many variables :Full length size in necessary for pump & lever actions.Small base dies & full length size for semi-auto's.Neck size for bolt action is probably most used method for accuracy ( s

[lc]

There are many variables :Full length size is necessary for pump & lever actions.Small base dies & full length size for semi-auto's.Neck size for bolt action is probably most used method for accuracy some hunters will full size there hunting loads for ease of chambering cartridges.You can set-up full length dies to just neck size. The charge weight of the load will determine the longevity of your brass, how often you need to trim the length & when to anneal the necks. This is an excellent site for info before I ramble & confuse ! www.varmintal.net/arelo.htm

[joe21a]

Be real careful of loads that people give you. Even if it is a safe load in their weapon it may not be in yours. Then some info I have noticed on some web pages that's way out there, example one guy claimed that he shoots 26 grains of Lil Gun 158.gr bullet in his 357 mag. Hedgon recommends16 to 18 Gr. I have worked up to 18 and could maybe go 1 or 2 more but I think at 26 I would be buying a new gun if I was able to. Get a good reloading book there is a ton of info and it will be a great help to you

[youp50]

Here is another no answer.

I have a model 99 Savage that needs to have small base die full length sizing. Th chamber is tight and there is not much leverage to close the bolt on a cartridge. I also load for a couple of other 308s. The 99 creates a need for me to small base size all 308's

I trim because I crimp. Crimping the neck requires all the brass to be the same length.

I believe that staying a grain or two under maximum will extend the useful case life. Some cartridges are more finicky than others. The 35 Remington comes to mind. You will probably need to bump the shoulder back. It is a mild cartridge. It still work hardens the shoulder of the casing.

Neck sizing generally limits the reload to the rifle that it was originally fired in.

[olsmokey]

If useing the same brass in same gun to neck size can't you use your full length die and bring it up off the shell holder a tad and drop your primer pin down the same tad?

[raf]

with brand new brass I'll full length size the first time. If it's for a bolt action I then only neck size. Those bullets will only work in my rifle unless someone elses rifle has a slightly larger chamber. I trim to length each time. IMO it make the bullets more consistent.

[craigf]

Feb 25, 2009 16:33:25 GMT -5 raf said:

with brand new brass I'll full length size the first time. If it's for a bolt action I then only neck size.

This is how I do it to. I only use bolt action rifles and reload for the best accuracy. I full lenght size new brass first so that all of the cases (new ones) are the same.

[raf]

I just re-read my post and think I didn't explain myself very well . That might have lead to some misunderstanding me. What I meant to say I full length size all the new brass the first time. After that I neck size for the bolt actions. If I'm loading for my auto loader I full length size each time using small base dies. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[artjr338wm]

During my 10 or so years on the INTERNET learning and gathering reloading information I have seen few subjects generate more differences of opinion than NK size only VS FL sizing. There basically are two schools of thought I have seen most often told to me by re-loaders with more years of experience reloading than I have been alive, and also the same re-loaders have the 5 and 10 shot 100-300yrd groups to back up their positions.

School of thought #1
With new never fired brass this school of thought states FL size one time prior to first loading and not again until it necessary to bump the shoulder back due to shell being difficult to chamber. This helps to insure all the brass from this lot# are as uniformed as passable. This applied to bolt action rifles only and if the ammo you are reloading will only ever be used in this rifle.

School of thought #2
With new never fired brass, neck size only to start, and FL size only when an increase in case length requires you to do so.

I will tell you have have tried out both for 4 different rifles in 4 different calibers and I can honestly say I never found any difference of any kind in terms of accuracy or reliability. The exact same goes for new never fired brass VS once fired brass IN MY RIFLES.

I now neck size only for all my bolt action rifles. When I am reloading for ammo to be used on a hunting trip I only use new never fired neck sized only brass. I strongly believe that the fewer reloading steps I have to perform, the more accurate my ammo will be.

The only thing I can honestly say that I have ever done that resulted in a increase in my reloads accuracy that I could positively confirm as fact was increasing my powder charges in my .338wm to be mildly compressed. I not only saw a marked increase in accuracy, I also saw my accuracy consistency maximized.

Also as you are just starting out allow me to offer you a few pieces of free reloading advice that are the actual reloading rules I live by.

#1-Before you start any reloading procedure involving primers or powder, put on some form good quality eye protection. It would be best if you simply do this any time you are reloading regardless.
#2-By now you should have invested in at least one good reloading manual. My personal favorite is the latest rifle/pistol reloading manual published by Lyman, but there are allot of good ones out there. Make sure you read your manual until you completely understand the reloading process.
#2B-Reloading in not a time for muti-tasking. You will be safer and best served if you perform only one reloading step at a time and do not start a different reloading step until you are 100% finished with the one you started.

#3-Sit down and develop and then right down your reloading procedure step by step and do not deviate from it. Keep it handy for quick reference.

#4-Keep a reloading log book that you rite down every thing you do and list all components you use along with their lot#s
#4B-What ever you store your reloads in make sure you label it with all important info that pertains to your reloads. I always list the fallowing both on my reloading data sheet and my ammo storage containers:
>Date loaded on
>Case prep used
>New or fired brass & how many Xs it has been fired & Lot#
>If brass was trimmed and how many Xs
>Type of powder, lot#, charge weight
>Bullet type, weight & lot#
>Primer type & lot#

#5-This next rule is among the most important. NEVER, NEVER, EVER have more than one reloading component (primer, powder, bullets) out on your reloading bench at one time. This also includes reloading dies, or type of die.

#6-Keep your reloading area as clean and well organized as passable. It should also be distraction free. When you are reloading I strongly feel that is not the time to be listening to your favorite radio station or TV program, or chatting with someone. You should also avoid food or especially pop or any other kind of liquid refreshment should not be allowed ever.

#7-Always start your reloads out below maximum and work your way up slowly. My 338wm can easily handel 75.5 grians of RL-19 which is actually over the published maximum in several manuals, with no pressure signs at all, but my 7mmSTW started popping out primers with charges of RL-22 well below any published maximum. So take any reloads you see on the INTERNET or else where as only advice, not as factual, and most certainly do not start out with them, build up to them slowly.

Lastly do not get caught up in all the hype concerning velocity and trying to get every last FPS out of your reloads. A difference of 150-200fps has little meaning in the hunting woods. FPS is a poor trade off for accuracy.

Hope this was helpful.

Just my 2c worth.
Arthur.

[Richard]

I have been a competitive benchrest shooter since 1992 and before that hand loaded since I was 21 years old.........hmmmmmthat would have been around 1964 I don't generally look thru this forum much because for the most part, what I see is where I was prior to 1992. I am not bragging or anything like that, but once you get involved in benchrest shooting and reloading, you are in another era. If any of you have a chance to hook up with a benchrest shooter, it will really open your eyes to a new world and degree of accuracy. I have shooters like Herman, come to my house and he is seeing things and methods he has not ever been exposed to. I now have him and his partner, my new buddy, Bill, getting involved in 600 yard benchrest shooting.
One important point I would like to convey, is NOT to over size your cases. Some people think you have to adjust your sizing die until the shell holder contacts the die............WRONG! This can cause over sizing or "bumping" the shoulder back too far. This causes excessive headspace and will shorten your case life. This is b ecause each time your fire one of these over sized cases, it will stretch and shortly thereafter the head will seperate.
Take out the decaping stem and size the case with it backed off the shell holder a bit. Take the case and run it in your rifle and see if the bolt with close without having to crank it down. If it chambers and closes ok, then set the lock down ring. Now put the decaping stem in and you will be good to go.
If you don't follow this porceedure and push the case up in the die further, you push the shoulder back more than it needs and create too much headsace.
Richard

[tpcollins]

Thanks for the reply Richard. When you say:

"Take out the decaping stem and size the case with it backed off the shell holder a bit. Take the case and run it in your rifle and see if the bolt with close without having to crank it down. If it chambers and closes ok, then set the lock down ring. Now put the decaping stem in and you will be good to go".

This would be the same as running the die down to the shellholder, and then backing it out a turn or so? Thanks.

[Richard]

Remember, a turn on a 7/8x14 equates to about .080" for a full turn. That is a lot. We are only talking about movement of .005 tp .010".
Richard

[sw]

I certainly can't add to what Richard does but will try. I've gone to using a custom die just for my gun and shoulder bumping as well as neck sizing each reloading. The case stays the same and doesn't get work hardened. Neck trimming of the entire set of cases every 4-5 shots. The replacable bushing, full length Redding dies are the easiest to do this with.

[whelenman]

I've kinda went full circle with this. I originally only did full length sizing because that's all I could afford for dies. Then I got the neck dies and started using them until the cases got tight and then full length sized. Now I've gotten more into measuring the shoulder of my fired cases and then adjusting the full length die to size the case .002 under the shoulder length of the fired case. I get good brass life this way as well and the best of both worlds....easy feeding and minimal brass stress. I really don't want to use new brass for hunting until it's been formed to a uniform length by firing in the rifle. That way I get more uniform case capacities and better accuracy. If you measure the shoulder length of new unfired brass you'll find some significant variations that can be eliminated by once firing. Now that's for hunting ammo. Target calibers I still use a bushing die and neck size only until the cases start getting tight.

[Richard]

Let me add another point in favor of neck sizing only...... By not sizing the sides of the case, it will remain expanded so as to give a tighter fit in the chamber. This is important in a "factory chamber" since they are cut overly loose. With the case fitting "snug" in the chamber, it keeps the bullet pointed more nearly in the center of the bore. A bullet aligned in the center of the bore is a more accurate one! In the benchrest game most shooters use a custom cut "tight or tighter" chamber (both the body and the neck - but more so, the neck) This allows one to "turn the neck wall thickness" concentric to a pilot inserted in the neck. This allows the shooter to cut his neck dimensions to closely (usually .002 to .003") to the size of his chamber. This will then hold the neck and its bullet very closely in line with the center of the bore. Think about this: You know that plunger in the face of your bolt? It is spring loaded. This is what tips your case out the port on extraction of your bolt. So, while your loaded round which has been full length resized and fitting "loosely" in your "factory chamber", that plunger is pushing against one side of that round. That in turn is "tipping" that round towards the opposite side of your chamber, leaving the bullet out of alignment with the center of your bore? If, you are able to seat your bullet way out of the case so it engages the rifling, this will become less of an issue. Unfortunately, most factory rifles have a long leade to accommodate various types of bullets. The way magazines are designed also limits how far out you can seat a bullet. Thus not allowing your loaded round to engage the rifling. If you were to load each round single shot, then you could avoid the magazine and seat your bullet out to grab the rifling.
Richard