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Post by jims on Feb 15, 2009 19:56:41 GMT -5
I read where someone was annealing all copper bullets after resizing them about .007. I may resize some all copper bullets less than a .001. Would annealing be necessary or advisable for such a small reduction in size?
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 15, 2009 20:18:03 GMT -5
If you are going to shoot them sabotless i would recommend it
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Post by Dave W on Feb 15, 2009 22:32:53 GMT -5
Annealing helps the bullets obdurate easier, might help.
Annealing helped get the all coppers to shoot at similar speeds as jacketed bullets with the same charge weight, the un-annealed shot at slower velocities than jacketed bullets at the same charge weight. Might have to back off the charge weight a little if you anneal. This was in a .45.
Smoke77, are you annealing those 275's you mentioned in another post?
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Post by rbinar on Feb 15, 2009 23:33:27 GMT -5
I read where someone was annealing all copper bullets after resizing them about .007. I may resize some all copper bullets less than a .001. Would annealing be necessary or advisable for such a small reduction in size? I'm not sure how much annealing would help. I would try it if needed. However I'd try my loads without it first. You may be able to save valuable time and effort. Following the lead of Martin Katz the TMZ and TEZ bullets have been shot accurately to speed by sizing them slightly small (from .451 to .449) then knurling them up. We skipped the annealing stage because of the plastic tip and accuracy was unaffected. |
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 15, 2009 23:34:52 GMT -5
Yes i did, they shot good . I tried them without annealing last year you would always get one or two flyers out of a five shot group. Annealing stoped the flyers.
John.
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Post by mshm99 on Feb 15, 2009 23:35:10 GMT -5
Going sabotless is going to make it just like any other high power rifle . Meaning you are going foul the bore with copper,and , annealing the bullets will make it happen quicker.
mshm
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Post by Dave W on Feb 15, 2009 23:41:13 GMT -5
Yes i did, they shot good . I tried them without annealing last year you would always get one or two flyers out of a five shot group. Annealing stoped the flyers. John. Have you taken any deer with an annealed bullet, just wondering if it changes the expansion characteristics of the Barnes bullets any? Thanks, and glad they are working out for you. |
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 15, 2009 23:49:44 GMT -5
No i have not used them on deer yet. The parker b/e fit so nice it is hard to get away from them. no knurling, no files just smash them down and fire away.
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 16, 2009 0:30:23 GMT -5
Rbinar, I bought the barnes tez thinking i could just pull the plastic tip out before i annealed them. That did not go to good,end up destroying the tip, they are tuff little buggers to get out. I will give my buddy the other 23 to shoot in his 50 cal. with a sabot.
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Post by joe21a on Feb 16, 2009 7:59:38 GMT -5
How much copper fowling do you get at our speed (2500-2700FPS) And how many shots to get it. I have center fire rifles that I have shot for 40 years and they still shoot under 1". They have only had a copper brush and oil and patch for cleaning.
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 16, 2009 8:38:23 GMT -5
Smokeless77,
I don't know your procedure, that produces flyers, what I do, is after knurling I mic the bullets, in my rifle [it wont be the same for you ] I need the bullets to be .450.5 perfect bullets become hunting bullets, I have several hundred put aside. bullets over 450.5 but not 451, become target bullets, any other bullets are resized and knurled again. I find a very accurate knurled bullet MUST load hard, by that I mean you must have to really lean on it to seat it.
I am only an expert on my rifle period, but if it works for me me it might work for all. The flat based TMZ is deadly accurate.. I had lots of help, profecting my knurling, First I had Rick, who introduced me the sabotless and knurling, Edge lent my his knurling tool, and sent be bullets to try, Smookeeter sent lots of bullets, with their help I was able to figure out the best way for me, I now use the two file system, I have the orginal die Rick sent and two Lee dies.
Good Luck
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 16, 2009 10:00:41 GMT -5
Bigmoose
Thanks, I no what you mean you have to get them pretty much perfect. if i run the barnes xpd over the files, and i anneal them i don't have to be so critical on the sizing the loose ones will obdurate and still shoot nice.
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 16, 2009 11:43:22 GMT -5
Smokeless77,
That is the difference, when I have a miss fire, I know it, before I pull the trigger [this was before I refined my method] A bullet that loaded too easy would not fire, yet the 209M primer, would push it out of the barrel.
Tom Post can resize and knurl .458 bullets with anealling. I think a perfect Big Game rifle would be one that shoot sabotless .458, I have no idea if you get the velocity, sabotless with a 350 gr bullet as you could in the 50 w/sabots. That quest is for the experts [RB}
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Post by Dave W on Feb 16, 2009 15:36:15 GMT -5
How much copper fowling do you get at our speed (2500-2700FPS) And how many shots to get it. I have center fire rifles that I have shot for 40 years and they still shoot under 1". They have only had a copper brush and oil and patch for cleaning. Not very much, certainly less than a centerfire. |
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 16, 2009 19:18:22 GMT -5
Bigmoose
I'am using 250- 275 grn bullets, with federal large magnum rifle primers with 4198 had no misfires yet.
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Post by rbinar on Feb 16, 2009 21:32:57 GMT -5
Smokeless77, That is the difference, when I have a miss fire, I know it, before I pull the trigger [this was before I refined my method] A bullet that loaded too easy would not fire, yet the 209M primer, would push it out of the barrel. Tom Post can resize and knurl .458 bullets with anealling. I think a perfect Big Game rifle would be one that shoot sabotless .458, I have no idea if you get the velocity, sabotless with a 350 gr bullet as you could in the 50 w/sabots. That quest is for the experts [RB} A 350 grain bullet would shoot the same as the 300 grain slug except it will go slower at the same pressure for any given powder. For an example 60 grains of H322 should reach about 2200fps with the same pressure as the 300 grain load you're shooting now. You could shoot a slower powder still (Benchmark or 4895) and about 65 to 68 grains would near 2300fps. That (as you know) will wake your shoulder up. |
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 16, 2009 21:50:31 GMT -5
Rick,
Its no secret, but my system, is sign in the load, using a lead sled, without weights, or a bag of shot between the butt and shoulder, than shoot off hand. I know you agree, once you have your zero, pratice in hunting positions. Than recoil is not a problem. With heavy recoiling rifles, I don't know anyone how shoots them on the bench. I had 122 hand loads for the Lott, two years later I still had 50 rounds left. At the time I was a 250lb gorilla, I shot that rifle once from the bench. Any one who says he enjoys shooting it, has a screw loose, if he doesn't, shot it a couple a times and it will shake something loose.
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