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Post by deadon on Sept 22, 2010 5:40:57 GMT -5
when Christ taught us "The Lords Prayer" He did not end it with. in Jesus name amen?
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Post by swampman on Sept 22, 2010 7:34:07 GMT -5
They are the same being.
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 22, 2010 8:02:55 GMT -5
Great question! This was Jesus responding to a request by the disciples to teach them how to pray. Jesus begins His prayer with an adoration and uplifting of God's name and makes request from the Father that life on earth would be dominated by His will as it is in Heaven.
Then comes the petitioning of God for the essentials of life. (Remember that Jesus said that if God provides for the birds of the air and dresses the lillies of the field then how much more would he take care of His own people?) But just as essential as food, water and shelter to men is forgiveness of man's rebellion against God in the form of sin. Jesus makes a correlation here to the acceptance of forgiveness by the sinner and the actual forgiving acts of the petitioner.
Next comes another petition. "Lead us not into temptation and protect us from the evil one". This is a plea for protection and also an admission that we who belong to God still continue to sin. There is only one form of protection from evil spirits that dominate the world and it doesn't involve our white knucking will power. It has to do with submission to the Spirit of Power that enables us to walk as free men without fear.
The last part of the prayer ends as it begins, with an adoration of who God is. It is Him and only Him that holds the power to live a righteous life and it must be to Him that we can give ALL of the glory. Forever and Forever.
Since this is Jesus, the Son of God, making this prayer to THE FATHER, who is in the form of a human there is no requirement that Jesus interject His name at the end of the prayer. At this very moment that Jesus was providing a prayer for His disciples to learn how to effectively pray, Jesus hadn't made it to Calvary to provide a sacrifice for the whole world (which would include the same sacrificial gift to the Hebrews). Here Jesus injects the empasis to the fact that not only is God the Father, the father of Jesus but also the father of all who love Jesus. All of this would become much more succinct as Jesus marches inevitably toward Jerusalem.
The point here is that we who love Christ have a right to go boldly toward the Throne of God as Jesus represents us with His love for us. As we go to the Throne it is obvious that we go with the name of Jesus in our hearts because that is the only thing that justifies us at all before God. God already knows our demeanor when we pray. When we end with "In the name of Jesus" He already knows the disposition of our hearts and whether we have truly submitted to the Power of the Spirit that provided the power to raise Christ from the dead. When we choose to end our prayers in this way, it is us who choose to identify ourselves but God already has a good handle on it but somehow it lifts us up to mention the Savior each time we pray. Understandably so.
Doug
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Post by swampman on Sept 22, 2010 8:25:56 GMT -5
Here Jesus debunks the fact that he and the Father are different beings. Like us, Jesus prayed to the God within.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 ΒΆ Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
Only Jesus can answer a prayer because he is God.
"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."
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Post by deadon on Sept 22, 2010 17:01:44 GMT -5
He was God walking among men.and wanted to teach men how to pray. He new that to ask in his name, IT WOULD BE DONE. Why would he not teach them that way. God can do no wrong,he cannot make mistakes. We as mortals should not be able to improve on the Lords Prayer, So should we end it with "in Jesus name amen"? Swampman, thanks for the input. Dougedwards, you never put anyone down or make them feel stupid. Your one of my heros. Thank you Sir, Rusty
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Post by swampman on Sept 23, 2010 6:24:49 GMT -5
Jesus tells us to ask the Father in his name. God isn't a name, it's a title. That's why we should be baptised in the "name" of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That name is the Lrod Jesus Christ.
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Post by stubblejumper on Oct 9, 2010 14:53:00 GMT -5
Deadon
To ask in Jesus name is to come to God under the authority given us by Jesus because of his death, burial and ressurection. We can come boldly before the throne of grace, right into the "holy of holies" or into the presence of God.
When Jesus told us to ask in his name he wasn't telling us to add a phrase to the end of every prayer as I have been raised to do. There is no "magic" or compelling of God with these words.
If I gave you written authority or power of attourney and a blank check to go buy a house in my name you could do so within the limits I imposed on you. The dealings would be done in my name.
To come in prayer "in Jesus name" is to come to the Father through the authority of his Son because of what Jesus did for us and our right relationship with him because of our being forgiven and the Holy Spirit indwelling us.
I think we have turned what was intended as a concept into a formula added on to our prayers. There is nothing wrong with adding "in Jesus name" to the end of our prayers but I don't think that was the original intention of our Lord's teaching.
I still find myself doing it the vast majority of the time.
And as with all things I wiil add that I may be wrong. This is how I interpret it and will submit myself to the clear teaching of scripture.
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Post by deadon on Oct 10, 2010 18:12:13 GMT -5
Deadon To ask in Jesus name is to come to God under the authority given us by Jesus because of his death, burial and ressurection. We can come boldly before the throne of grace, right into the "holy of holies" or into the presence of God. When Jesus told us to ask in his name he wasn't telling us to add a phrase to the end of every prayer as I have been raised to do. There is no "magic" or compelling of God with these words. If I gave you written authority or power of attourney and a blank check to go buy a house in my name you could do so within the limits I imposed on you. The dealings would be done in my name. To come in prayer "in Jesus name" is to come to the Father through the authority of his Son because of what Jesus did for us and our right relationship with him because of our being forgiven and the Holy Spirit indwelling us. I think we have turned what was intended as a concept into a formula added on to our prayers. There is nothing wrong with adding "in Jesus name" to the end of our prayers but I don't think that was the original intention of our Lord's teaching. I still find myself doing it the vast majority of the time. And as with all things I wiil add that I may be wrong. This is how I interpret it and will submit myself to the clear teaching of scripture. Finally, after caring folks tried their best to explain to this thick headed old F@#t, I got it Thanks to all, Rusty
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