Russkull's modified Mathews

[russkull]

I wanted to show off my Mathews Switchback XT after all the modifications; I replaced the 60# camo limbs with black 70# limbs, replaced the string with the Barracude green/black string, added the Anchor Sight, the HHA slider bow sight, and today bought string silencers.

Next, I have to do the walk back method for my new arrows.






Russkull

[deadon]

Russkull, Looks like a killer to me!!!! You should be ready for hunting season? I wish harley could show me some stuff. ;D Keep us posted

[russkull]

Thank you, deadon. Hope it will be a killer. I did the walk back today and everything is tuned. Tomorrow I will zero the bow at 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 yrds.

I played with my new arrows. The bow is zeroed at 20 yrds. with my Carbon Max 2000. I fired my new Easton Axis ST NFused 340 at 20 yrds. They hit in the exact spot as my 2000s. At that range there is no noticeable loss of velocity. The difference in penetration is very noticeable. They were almost through shots. only the fletching was in the target. Glad I didnt lose any(Harley). I had been worried that the spine was too stiff for 60# and the arrows would leave the rest erratically. So far they group as tight and maybe tighter than my 2000s regardless of 50 grns extra weight and a much more stiff spine.

Tomorrow will be the real test of the bow. I am curious to see how much velocity I lost, dropping to a 26.5" draw. It will be apparent as I mark the index on my slider. I am even more curious to compare tomorrows results to when I work up to 70#. Seems like it never ends!!!

[russkull]

I am lucky to Have Harley guiding my way and giving me his old toys. I have a feeling I wouldn't be enjoying this sport without his help. He is a wealth of information and is obsessive about getting to the bottom of things. Pick his brain! There is a ton to be gleaned and if he doesn't know..., he'll figure it out. I am still amazed at what he has done with his Savage .45 and the loads he developed for my .270 WSM.

[Harley]

Russell, you could make an old man blush, but I'm not giving you any more of my toys........I'm willing them to you.

Looking at your bow, I see the slider is set all the way down so you can dial 20 yards without having to look; I know this also gives you the maximum yardage out of the slider. What looks odd is the tilt on the sight hood. Does it straighten up into a full circle as you move the slider?

Okay, if you lose fps tomorrow it'll be because of the difference in the draw length, right? You're still shooting 60# just like with the old limbs. Of course, that direct comparison can only be made if you shoot the Carbon Maxx 2000, but even here it's not a direct comparison because you shortened the arrow.

Will you try both arrows at those longer ranges? I'd guess from 45 yards on out you'll notice two things:
the 2000 will drop less and the Easton will penetrate more deeply.

Harley

P.S.: Is the bow quieter with the string silencers?
P.P.S.: I see you've also added the Harmonic Dampener to the lower limb. That's a HUGE improvement in vibration dampening.

[russkull]

I will shoot both arrows tomorrow. My focus is on the 2000. The 340 were an investment for the future(70#). Will be fun just to compare. My slider is not bottomed. I was close with the lower set of holes but arrows were still 3" high at 20 yrds. I may go back to it if I have lost too much velocity. 3" at 20 yrds won't kill me. Easy enough to compensate.

The sight angle is a bit odd. Neither I nor the bow shop could break the Allen-screw to modify it. It doesn't effect anything. My level is at the top of my sight hood and obscures the portion of the hood that would be observed. Only reason to mess with it would be aesthetics. Regardless it is a much larger and wider view-field than shooting with a peep!

The damper is great! I have no idea about the Monkey Tails. I don't really think they make a noticeable difference. I may pull them off and compare. I know in theory they slow my string. That probably isn't noticeable either. I am pleased that the bow is dead quiet. No need to add a $50 string stop.

[Harley]

Probably, about now is a good time to take a second look at your need for speed. Your heavier, slower Easton arrows will penetrate deeper than your lighter, faster 2000's, so they are worth shooting even at a reduced draw weight. Either will penetrate adequately, though, so don't make a big thing about it.

When it's all said and done I'd shoot the lighter, faster arrow at close to moderately far distances at a live target for no other reason than the added margin of safety if you mis-judge your distance: It shoots flatter.

Harley

[dougedwards]

Jun 4, 2010 21:26:06 GMT -5 Harley said:

Probably, about now is a good time to take a second look at your need for speed. Your heavier, slower Easton arrows will penetrate deeper than your lighter, faster 2000's, so they are worth shooting even at a reduced draw weight. Either will penetrate adequately, though, so don't make a big thing about it.

When it's all said and done I'd shoot the lighter, faster arrow at close to moderately far distances at a live target for no other reason than the added margin of safety if you mis-judge your distance: It shoots flatter.

Harley

That is my thinking also. I am only pulling 62 lbs and shooting 28.5" arrows. After extensive testing with many 400 and 340 spined arrows I have decided on Easton Lightspeed 400 at 7.4 gpi. I am on the border of 400 and 340 spine and both shoot well from my bow. However, with the lighter arrow I could shoot 0-25 without moving my slider if I wanted just a two inch hold over at 25 yards. Most of my shots are within that range and penetration will not be an issue unless I were to hit larger bone.

That is a nice looking rig Russell. Now is a good time to work on form and release follow through. My form usually starts out good and then I develop a case of target panic. Don't concentrate on the pin but only on the target and good form. Good accuracy will take care of itself with a sweet shooting bow. Keep us posted.

Doug

[Harley]

Doug, I'm shooting 60# at 29" and a 7.3 gn/in arrow, so we are both in the same ball park.

I've developed a bad case of target panic over the years due to the way I've always shot - I think it's because I grew up with long bows and custom recurves that I have always released immediately after coming to full draw. That's poor form with the compound. I'm trying to break myself of it by keeping my finger behind the trigger until I've gone through my mental checklist at full draw.

Harley

[russkull]

Thank you Doug, for the advice and compliments. I have all the faith in the world in this bow. My main focus will be on form. Now that I have this bow tailored for me I feel like I am starting over again.

My intention is to stick with the lightest arrow I can shoot at any given draw weight. I have the 340s for future use as I plan to work up to 70# draw. I will shoot them today just for fun.

russell

[Dave W]

This release really helped when I would develop target panic.
www.spot-hogg.com/products/releases/cascade_releases/index.php
I would use it for a week or so and then go back to my Scott release.

Welcome to the board Russ and good luck with the bow.

[Harley]

Hey, DaveW; good to see you on this side of the Board. That's a hefty price for the Cascade release, but I could probably pay for it with the arrows I wouldn't lose. A couple of questions, though:

I couldn't tell from the description exactly how the "relax" mode works with a D-loop; do you hook the Cascade rope through the D-loop? I wouldn't think so, because that would make the effective draw length too long. The "hook" mode for the Cascade is for a regular "tension" release only, isn't it?

BTW, Russell couldn't use it because he has my old Gator Jaws release; it has two calipers that go one to each side of the nock. A great release that will not pinch the nock, but I don't think they are available, now.

Harley

P.S.: I've just had a flash - maybe with my own installed D-loop I wouldn't use the Cascade rope at all? Another question: Can I use it left handed?

[russkull]

Sounds like a great device. I do you a two jaw release. I am very satisfied with it and have a spare. I don't think I have an issue with panic or punching. For now, I see no need to change it. My focus will be on my new draw length, anchor point and Anchor Sight. If I slow down and run through my procedures, I can put all my arrows through the same hole. Now I need to work on consistency.

Russell

[deadeye]

davew & i think alike,rope release's should be more dominant in the archery industry-no need for the loop- i used to shoot a barner rope release in competition in the 90's, another product i cannot believe that is not used more to help eliminate string/nock pinch is the
www.yeoldearcheryshoppe.com/super-nock-p-2002.html

[russkull]

Thanks deadeye. You reminded me of another point I forgot to mention. I had to adjust the knocks of all my arrows. Both my Carbon Max and my new Easton with X Knocks were entirely too tight on my Barracuda sting. Not a big deal to adjust and I think Harley tested with a chrony to compare results. Does seem that the fancy clear plastics are harder to mold than the opaque.

[Dave W]

Jun 5, 2010 8:49:26 GMT -5 Harley said:

Hey, DaveW; good to see you on this side of the Board. That's a hefty price for the Cascade release, but I could probably pay for it with the arrows I wouldn't lose. A couple of questions, though:

I couldn't tell from the description exactly how the "relax" mode works with a D-loop; do you hook the Cascade rope through the D-loop? I wouldn't think so, because that would make the effective draw length too long. The "hook" mode for the Cascade is for a regular "tension" release only, isn't it?

BTW, Russell couldn't use it because he has my old Gator Jaws release; it has two calipers that go one to each side of the nock. A great release that will not pinch the nock, but I don't think they are available, now.

Harley

P.S.: I've just had a flash - maybe with my own installed D-loop I wouldn't use the Cascade rope at all? Another question: Can I use it left handed?

Lloyd, yes the release rope would have to go through the D-loop, possibly changing your draw length.

IIRC there is a screw that changes the release mode from a regular mode to the relax mode. When it is in the relax mode-when you push down on the trigger, you hear a click, then once you start relaxing thumb pressure the release fires. This worked well for the type of target panic I had. I could not hold the pin on the spot and pull the trigger, when I would start to squeeze the trigger, my bow hand would jerk the pin off the spot. The only way I could shoot when it would set in was to punch the trigger. I would switch to this release and it would retrain my brain to not fear holding the pin on the spot when squeezing the trigger. Initially I would still have the jerks but after a week or so, the panic would go away. Funny how the brain works.


Something else to try for target panic that would help sometimes. Come in to the spot from a different direction. I always brought the pin from the bottom up because I drew the bow with the arrow pointed below level, most guys I shot with came into the spot from the top. I would change it up during practice and come in from the left or right side of the spot, occasionally the top which really felt awkward to me and never really helped since I would drop the pin low automatically anyway. Also try standing close to the target and shooting with your eyes closed.

This might be a more economical option but I have no experience with it.
www.trufire.com/xcaliper.html

I see no reason the Cascade would not work left handed but a call or e-mail to the manufacturer would answer the question. I no longer shoot 3-D so I got rid of mine or I would send it to you to try.

[Harley]

Dave, I just looked at the Xcaliper; it seems a viable alternative to the Cascade.

50 years ago, when I shot skeet regularly, we had a squad member show up with "release" triggers on his shotgun. Nobody wanted to shoot with him, but I volunteered. On the very first station he turned to say something to me, relaxed his finger and BOOM. Happily, the shotgun was pointing downrange. I'd probably make the same mistake with the bow.

I'll try some of your other hints.

Harley

[russkull]

Harley, you have too many funny stories! I put an arrow in my wall the first time I drew my 70# bow. No idea how..., Gator Jaws just released. Missed my tv by a few inches. Very glad I had an arrow knocked. Haven't been able to repeat it. It must have been something I did. Yester day I sighted out to 40 yrds. I walked back in to 20 and shot again..., my arrow sailed cleanly over the target. puzzled i went to look and found my arrow. I quickly realized i didn't set my slider back to 20 yrds. Duh!!!

This line of though prob. belongs in the A Stupid Mistake thread.

[deadon]

Russkull,as well as his talent,I think you have your old mans sense of humor ;D

[russkull]

Well..., deadon, Id call it a combination of being obsessive and making stupid mistakes. If you wanna call it a sense of humor, I'll take it. Thanks! Thinking of it as humor has boosted my esteem for the day .

Russell

[russkull]

It's been a long day! I zeroed my bow from 20-60yrds. It was not easy. I was not very on my game. I have stepped up my morning running and exercise so..., was exhausted and it was 87 degrees with 1000% humidity. I managed to shoot well enough to get it done but had 6 arrow hunts. I lost one and tore the fletching on another. Started my shoot with a good omen: a large buck(for SE Texas) in velvet was standing where I place my target. I have been seeing this guy for 2yrs. He is a nice 10pt. He has jumped in front of my truck and motorcycle several times.

I am pleased with my bow. I have lost some velocity with the draw length change but not as badly as I had suspected. It will still shoot out to 60yrds. I will fire it through a chrony in Nov. to verify the degree of loss. The greatest degree of loss seems to be fro 30-40yrds and then remains relatively stable out to 60.

I tried the heavier arrows again at only 20yrds. Wow, they hit hard! I will try them tomorrow out to 60yrds. I expect to see them lose velocity much faster than my 2000s but probably penetrate better even out to 60. Who knows? I was surprised at how little velocity I lost with bow modifications. Perhaps the stiffer spine will carry enough energy to negate their extra 50grs. Tune in tomorrow....

Where are you Harley? Did you take the day off or are you still searching the lake for arrows

[deadon]

Russkull or anybody, I do not shoot a bow anymore, bad shoulders I went to a crossbow a few years ago. It shoots at 325fps. I was 2" high at 20 yrds, deadon at 30,4" low at 40 but the sucker dropped 19' at 50 yrds. How could you possibly hope to hunt out to 60 yrds? Never too old to learn, I hope ;D Rusty

[russkull]

I really don't expect to hunt out to 60yrds. Zeroing my sight out to 60 yrds is a part of the procedure for selecting the the correct yardage tape for my slider sight. I am not saying that I wouldn't try it(with more practice). I know my 0-40yrd game is on but need to focus on my technique and refine it with my new set-up before I'd try it, in good conscience. I'd hate for an animal to suffer do to my showing off. Once refined and given good conditions, I'd go for it. 70# draw weight will help too.

As for a crossbow, I know nothing. I have no idea how the sighs work on them. I'd imagine the dynamics are similar and that it would be possible but that would depend on the sighting mechanism. Are the sights fixed, mult-ipin or slider?

I'm curious now and hope we get some feed back.

[deadon]

I met no offense Sir, I am still learning, Rusty

[russkull]

No offense taken deadon. Sorry if my posting read that way. You have me thinking and curious about crossbows and their differences from vertical bows. I am learning too. I am very new to this game.

[russkull]

I was just reading some info on aiming devices for crossbows. Sounds like they are capable of shooting long distances. I was reading about a Hawke MAP scope. Sounds like a good and fairly reasonably priced scope. It is coupled with ballistics software. I have heard others speak of this software before. They seem to think a lot of it. The software requires all of you variables and will then print a chart that fits into you flip-up scope cover. From what I just read it will plot your trajectory out to 70yrds. Sounds like it can be done. I'm still curious to hear what others with experience have to say. I do get the impression that crossbows do not shoot very flat. Russell

[Harley]

Rusty, I used a crossbow for a few years after my last episode with bad shoulders, even killed two deer on opening day one year. BUT, I never liked the crossbow; it felt like hunting with a rifle to me. The last time I fired it at a deer, at 40 yards, she was gone by the time the bolt arrived. It was that noisy. I understand, mostly from SW, that the newer versions of some brands have eliminated most of the noise; as a matter of fact, SW claims his is effective to 100 yards.

When you talk about shooting deer with a compound at, say 60 yards, I was always against that practice because it seemed too far for accurate shot placement and too far for adequate penetration. I'd still have to be better prepared than I am today, but my recent target experience has me leaning toward the possibility. The one time I shot my new bow at distances of 50 and 60 yards I shot 2-3" groups with deep penetration of the field points. Like I said, I'd have to be a lot more consistent than I am, now, and I'd have to test the fixed blade broadheads to learn if they will track at those extended differences; but, the game has definitely changed.

Russell, I did do some shooting today; I've junked the practice G5 broadheads because they damage my targets when I pull them back out; so, I shot the hunting G5's, and am happy to report they hit consistently where the field points hit. I did miss the entire target with one shot and the broadhead buried about half its length in a Sweet Gum tree. I had to use a hammer and chisel to retrieve it. The good news is it wasn't damaged, and would STILL shave hair on my arm. I'm beginning to love these G5's.

Harley