Jet metal lathe

[smokeless77]

Any one looking for a little lathe and lives close to Claymont, Delaware might want to see if it still available.
Came across it looking for tooling on craigslist.
Looks like a nice little machine, Threading too.
$ 400.00 thats a deal.

[e-mail]

John

[rossman40]

If it is in decent shape that is a buy in my book for $400, I'm just debating if it is worth driving 550 miles one way to get it.

[smokeless77]

rossman, If he does not sell it, maybe he will change his tune.
"WILL NOT SHIP MUST PICK UP"
Sounds like it is in nice shape and has all the different threading change gears,
Tool post, Drive plate and steady rest,
Leave him an E-mail, May be worth it.

John

[rossman40]

Already have contacted him last night and he had one guy look at it yesterday. If that guy doesn't take it I'll make a trip to Delaware and pick it up. Lathes like that around here I have seen for about $600 pretty much wore out and no tooling like chuck and tool post. One in very nice shape with a few goodies is easily in the $1200 range.

Jet brought in a ton of those lathes from Taiwan in the 70s and 80s. I think if you bought the stand and basic tool kit along with it the cost back then was almost $2k. Most were 110 but a few were 220, decent spindle bore (over 1"). Considered a cheap hobby lathe back then it was kinda shocking to see the number of small shops that used them. I remember one small job shop in Cincinnati that had at least 4 of them and flogged them hard for many years. Supposedly Jet still supports it and has some parts available.

[jims]

Rossman: If you go have a safe trip and good machining.

[boarhog]

I have been looking for a similar buy somewhere a tad closer to Arkansas. My major problem, besides the money part, is knowing enough to know if it is a good deal.

[smokeless77]

rossman

If you do go make sure you look it over good. Bring a flash light. Look under the Q/C gearbox and check out the back gears make sure there is no broken gears, It can get costly to fix. Which you probably already know. I'm no expert but I learned by buying them.
If you go have a safe ride and good luck.

John

[Richard]

Also, bring a dial indicator with magnetic stand. Your indicator should read to at least .0005" so you can check the run out on the head stock. I would look for a maximum of .0005" run out.
Richard

[rossman40]

I was a day short on that one! I felt kinda bad since it was 60 miles from Dave D and he is looking for a lathe too. It's like sneaking into your buddies honey hole and bagging the big 14pt.

True Richard, but you have to strip it down to the headstock spindle to rule out the chuck. A friend of mine bought one and did the run-out test which the lathe failed so he talked the guy down another $200 because of replacing the spindle bearings. Come to find out the spindle was actually bent, that's what happens when you buy one that came out of a shop class. What was worse the bearings looked awful new and my friend wondered if the guy he bought it off of replaced the bearings and knew the spindle was bent to start with when he sold it. Buyer beware!

[dave d.]

:)ken don't feel bad I was just playing with you. You had second dibs on the machine I just couldn't believe it was such a nice deal and close to home. We will both find a machine hopefully close to our homes. Please keep a eye out because I really rely on you to do the leg work. Thank you

[youp50]

I worked at a place in the 80's that was buying machine tools. At that time the good buys were Jet machines. Made in Taiwan with Japanese gears.

[boarhog]

I have decided to call SEARK College to ask about machinist courses. At one time, it was a vocational school, but has been upgraded some in the last few years. I don't know if they still have welding, H&AC, auto mechanics, etc. I would love to find a small lathe in the $500.00-$1000.00 range, but I'm afraid I'll have to buy a new one because I know nothing about how decide if a used one is worth buying.

[rossman40]

By all means if you plan on getting one see if there is a vocational school (high school level) offering adult basic machining courses. It would at least teach the basics including safety and maintenance. Never too late to teach a old dog a few new things.

With used lathes around here, a lot of the lathes I have looked at are just plumb wore out. I've seen South Bends built in the 30s, rode hard and put away wet during the 40s and then dug out of the dumpster in the 50s by a hobbyist and then the guys grandson wants $1200 for it. Then sometimes you will find a jewel like a Logan 200 that while old, was a one or two owner, set-up and maintained right, then used maybe a little bit but more importantly used right.

A friend of mine "acquired" a nice LeBlond 14X60, just a bit worn so he thought he would get it overhauled. The cheapest quote he got was like $12,000. You can buy a whole lot of Chinese lathe for that much but in the machine business you will hear the term "American Iron". American built machines will weigh a third or more then most equivalent import machines, heavy duty drives and beds. I had it shown to me once, a buddy put this piece of scrap round in this Cincinnati (not small, maybe a 16"), spun it up and ran the cutter in till it was taking off at least 3/8" chips (they were flying like shrapnel) and the machine didn't skip a beat.

[boarhog]

I have been looking at used equipment dealers on the WWW. Seems like most of the lathes out there are way too large for my needs. I do not wish to have to mess with 3 ph. I have a 5 HP 3 ph dust collector rig that we used to use in our buffing room.. It's a long story, but now use a 220 single ph collector that works as well and is much quieter. I don't want to have to jump through the hoops necessary to get the wiring re-hashed. City inspectors etc!

[boarhog]

Just a short follow-up. I looked on the www.seark.edu web site. They do offer quite a few MECH courses. All the way from Modern Manufacturing Processes, to basic machine design and safety, all the way up to DNC and CNC machine operation and programing. It looks like I will have to take at least 2 preliminary courses before taking the one that starts doing a complete project. Ought to be interesting.

[rossman40]

About the first four would do you good. Like I said a high school level vocational school offering adult classes would also do and maybe a bit cheaper. But then again letting a old dog have a chance to be around young collage girls,,, PRICELESS....

[smokeless77]

Mar 28, 2010 21:50:08 GMT -5 boarhog said:

I have been looking at used equipment dealers on the WWW. Seems like most of the lathes out there are way too large for my needs. I do not wish to have to mess with 3 ph. I have a 5 HP 3 ph dust collector rig that we used to use in our buffing room.. It's a long story, but now use a 220 single ph collector that works as well and is much quieter. I don't want to have to jump through the hoops necessary to get the wiring re-hashed. City inspectors etc!

Boarhog, Don't be afraid of the 3 ph equipment, The new digital converters, VFDs (variable frequency drives) work nice and not all that expensive, And easy to wire.

John

[rossman40]

Well I found me a Atlas on Craig's list just a few miles from the house. I jumped on it and this time I was the first there with the cash. When I talked to the guy on the phone he said it was a old 9X36 with a quick change gear box and all he used it for was cutting threads when making tie rods for 1/4 midgets. The guy is a tool maker so knows his stuff and he said when he bought it the guy hardly used it. It didn't look right for a 9" but it was cherry. A lot of tools, holders and bits. A new 8" 4 jaw chuck still in the box, a steady rest and a follow rest which is rare for a old Atlas. Me and the son gets it back to the house and I check the numbers and it comes back as a 12X36, quick change gear box and powered crossfeed. I measure the machine and it is a 12X36 and from the date on the motor and from the box the 4 jaw was in I date it about 1952 so it is just a little older then me. The only bad thing is the follow rest looks to be off a 10". This is a quick pic, I took the cover off when we trailered it home,



Went to clean it up and get it situated in the gabarn (part garage, part barn). The bed is cherry, nothing has been spun in the 5" 3 jaw chuck. Little bit of play in the crossfeed and the carriage traverse is funky. So I am working it and find a loose screw and tighten it up and it makes it worse, the carriage binds and I try to work it free and then pieces start falling out of the carriage. Come to find out there is this pot metal gear box that handles the traverse of the carriage that is toast (at least now). Look on Ebay and USED the cheapest one is $125, look at Sears and a new one is $141 and in stock. Haven't even turned a part and it has cost me $168. A buddy warned me running a lathe is expensive.

[smokeless77]

rossman, Glad to see you found a machine, sounds like you had some troubles with the apron, If that is all you have to put into it your doing good. Good Luck with it.

John

[boarhog]

Ken,
Congrats on the find. I'm sure you will make good use of this lathe. I have been checking Craig's List myself. Kind of a waste of time, since I know next to nothing about brands, models, etc. Last time I checked, there were a few things listed around Memphis.

Do you mind saying what you had to pay for the Atlas?
Rob/Boarhog

[rossman40]

I had to pay $650 which around here is about a tad under the going price for a 12X36 hobby lathe. Considering it came with a 5" 3jaw on it, a 8" 4 jaw still in the box from 1952, a steady rest, all the original tools plus a big coffee can of newer (some un-used). It also came on a decent bench and has been wired with a reverse switch. It has been lightly used and not abused. It isn't the greatest lathe in the world but hopefully will keep tolerances fairly tight and I'll get back into machinist mode. My main goal was a lathe at a decent price that I could resale a few years down the road and still get most of my investment back when/if I upgrade.

A lot of lathes in this class Atlas/Craftsman, South Bend, Logan/Wards were a bit on the light side and with small spindle bores. A commercial grade lathe would easily go over 1000lbs to reduce flex and dampen vibrations. As far as tolerances you have to work to keep .001 on a light lathe, bit easier on a heavy commercial lathe. Then you run into precision or toolroom lathes like a Hardinge or Monarch, these will keep it down to .00005" (50 millionths) for a price, a new Hardinge HLV will set you back about $50k. They are so well made and precise most are still going strong, ATK still has a Monarch in the shop that makes parts/tools for the space shuttle boosters that was made December 7, 1941. A lot of lathes were made for the war years and were flogged hard and put away wet so a war years lathe could be pretty worn. I think your seeing more bigger/commercial lathes on the market nowadays because it is cheaper to buy new then rebuild a lot of the older lathes, I've seen some real monsters (like 4'X24') go for scrap prices.

There is a auction coming up the end of the month that may have a few buys, I'll keep you guys posted.

[boarhog]

There is a shop in this area that does some machine work, welding, fabricating, etc. I was out there a few weeks ago to talk to them about building something for me. They have a shop full of lathes. The one the young guy said they use most looked like about a 13 X 40, but they had several with chucks that looked to be about 18-24" with beds long enough to turn telephone poles into toothpicks! The kid said the boss was in the hospital. He has been having health problems and is getting ready to retire. I never did get to talk to the boss about my project, but when I do, I'll inquire about the lathes. You never know. He might start selling off some of his equipment,

[rossman40]

What your looking for is a lathe with a swing from 10-14", a 9" can work but with the larger swings you usually get larger beds and the extra work room is good. A center-to-center length of 24" at a minimum and 36-40" more like it unless your working on 50 BMGs, this would allow you to contour barrels. A spindle bore of 1.25-1.5" again unless your working on a .50 BMG. Most lathes can do threading, some just require swapping gears. Bigger lathes (even the heavier commercial models like Monarchs, Cincinnati or Hardinge) are pain to move, sometimes requiring riggers and a reinforced floor. Plus a motor over 2-3hp flat sucks some juice. As far as accessories at a minimum you will need a steady rest for barrel work. Then you get into a long list of other things. Parts availability is another thing, you can still get some factory parts for older South Bends, Logans and Atlas. Plus there were so many made during the war years there is tons of used parts. One to avoid is a Rockwell-Delta, no parts but hey, with a lathe and a mill you can make a lot of stuff.

Probly the most in demand used lathe is a South Bend "Heavy 10". They started making these in 1939 and didn't stop till the 90s. With a tight machine working in the "10s" (tenths of a thousandth) was supposedly possible. From what I hear the guy that owns Grizzly bought what is left of South Bend and plans on bringing back the "Heavy 10". I have seen some very clean used ones bring over $4k.

A Atlas may be low on the totem pole but for light work,, Logans can be OK, specially the newer Powermatics. Clausing (they bought Atlas) have some good models, plenty of 5900s. LeBlond Regals are nice.

[rossman40]

This is a newer Heavy 10, you would have to come up with some serious coin to snag this one,



Newer ones have a cabinet base while the older ones had a pedestal under the head and legs under the tail,



60ish Logan,



Logan Powermatic, real popular for shop classes,



A cherry Clausing, some of these used a varible drive set-up that could be a pain. Most of the bugs got worked out with the 5900 series and they sold a ton of them.



A LeBlond Regal, the Regal is a bit lighter compared to Leblond heavies which a 14X50 could easily hit 3000lbs,



Like everything else nowadays, then you have the Chinese lathes. Now there is a difference between mainland China and Taiwan. Use to be better quality from Taiwan. Sold under a ton of names but most known as Grizzly, Enco, Jet, Ganesh. With the newer designs they have copied all the good things so the basic engineering is there but you have to wonder about quality.

Do you spend $2K or more for used one that you may have to dump more into or pay the same or more for a spanking new import?

[Jon]

Roseman40, I have a 16-48 Clausing coldchester It's old and heavy but in pretty good shape. I'd like to have new and shiney but it will have to do. I know what you mean by expensive my dro is acting up on my bridgeport that I'm sure is going to cost. Lots of luck with your new toy.
Jon

[rossman40]

I haven't seen a 16X48 Clausing Colchester in person but there are a lot of the 15" 8000 series around these parts and they are big and heavy too. I thought with like a 7-10hp motor on one like that might cause a brown-out in my neighborhood. Plus when you get to the 2500-3000lb range it is beyond throwing it in the back of your pick up and having 3 or 4 young studs carry it in the garage.

[Jon]

Rossman40, Your right it took a flat bed and a low boy fork lift. The funny part the guy I bought it from was making parts for gas rc cars. Talk about over kill.
Jon

[boarhog]

A friend has a small lathe I can buy for $300.00. I have emailed pix to Rossman, but thought I would post them here and ask for comments from some of you Machinist Gurus. I was told that it is in good shape and has lots of tools and doodads with it. It is a Sears, made by Dayton. I have asked him to try to get model and serial numbers for me.
Thanks for looking,
Boarhog

[rossman40]

What that looks like is a Atlas/Craftsman 6X18 or 618. It is a early model, probly before WWII, with babbit bearings. The motor/pulley setup has been changed some but the motor looks original, it should be a Dayton motor. Underneath the bench the aluminum pan holds the change gears for threading, IIRC there should be 9 of them. I see a 4 jaw chuck and two faceplates also underneath.

With Atlas lathes the big killer is the babbit bearings on the early model headstock spindles, you can identify them as having bearing caps with bolts in them. The models that ran Timken roller bearings did not have rod caps with bolts. If the babbit bearings are gone you can not buy replacements, you have to make them, which is a almost dead art form. There are a few shops that do it. Sometimes you can find guys that work on old trains and steam engines that can do it. But getting them lined up is a miracle. Clausing, who bought Atlas still has some parts availible for these lathes but must have lost the mold for the bearings. In the Sears parts catalog if you try to order the bearings the number goes to a replacement headstock with Timken bearings with a very large price tag.

Another downfall is the use of a early version of pot metal called Zemak to make parts like pulleys, gears and brackets. The story goes that while pot metal was around earlier it took a New Jersey company to perfect it by using highly refined zinc about 1930. As a result the New Jersey Zinc Company became the largest producer of zinc in the US with the highest quality in the world before WWII. A big polluter, the EPA started cracking down on them in the 70s and as the EPA's noose tightened and zinc prices dropped they went into bankruptcy. There are still remnants of the company operating today and several of their smelter sites are still on the EPAs superfund list.

Even with their downfalls it still shows the craftsmanship put into these 80 year old lathes, they are out there and still do the job they were intended to do.