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Post by cuda on Jan 31, 2010 2:00:53 GMT -5
Which can you reload the most different size bullets in? From yotes to deer and maybe pigs with one gun. Which would be the best bolt action gun?
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Post by screwbolts on Jan 31, 2010 8:52:54 GMT -5
Because you have asked, Which can you reload the most different size bullets in?
The obvious answer is They are Identical in this respect. both can be loaded with any bullet that will fit in the other :-)
"Richard" gave you great advice in the other Thread.
I might add, If you have the same barrel length for both cartridges, the 308 has the advantage of more actual barrel being the case is shorter. The 308 might be considered more efficient because of this.
I like both. I like short actions for all of "Richards" reasons.
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Post by mountainam on Jan 31, 2010 8:54:42 GMT -5
They are both .308" so the quick answer is "They'll both shoot them". However early .308Win rifles were manufactured with 1in 12 twists as opposed to the 1 in 10" twist of the 30/06. In that case you may experience a little less accuracy in a .308Win with bullets over 180 grains. The .30/06 has a case that was designed in 1903 for the large grained powders of the time. When ball powders arrived after WWII, the .308 was capable in duplicating ballistics in a smaller case which translated to a soldier carrying more ammo/weight. When the '06 is loaded to the same pressures as those for the .308Win and uses modern powders it's power potential is considerably more than the .308. It sounds by you questions that you do not own any centerfire rifles. I would recommend that you look at some smaller calibers due to your game parameters you stated. A .30 cal rifle is not the smoothest rifle to learn to shoot. Try looking at a .260 Rem or a 7mm/08. Even a .243 will kill the game you listed like a lightning bolt if you reload for it. Buy the way, the three caliber that I listed are all derived from the .308Win. The larger the caliber the more the components like bullets cost. As far as bolt rifles I'm a Remington 700 fan. I never lost one cent on any Remington I've ever sold. If getting your money out of a rifle later doesn't matter to you then there is a lot of rifles that will fit the bill. A lot of guys like the Savage but I'm finding out the hard way that resale is awful. Keep in mind that most bolts will cost you in the range of $550 or $600. Why buy something that will only yield you half of that if you need to get rid of one. A lot of people own .30 cal rifles. Most don't reload. and most don't shoot them much. And you have to shoot a .30 cal a lot to be good with it. Look at a smoother shooting caliber you won't be sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 15:31:01 GMT -5
Here's an interesting note.....If you go to a ballistics program and plug in a factory [.308/180gn SP, 2620fps] load and compare it to the results that many get on this board with their Pac-nor .45 loads, [200gn SP @ 2700fps] you'll find the two very close in both velocity, energy and trajectory out to 300yds. In all actuality we're shooting a .308 when we go hunting with the .45....Same performance, but loading from the front... Zen
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Post by DHinMN on Jan 31, 2010 17:45:55 GMT -5
Mountainam gave you some pretty good advice.
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Post by rjhans53 on Jan 31, 2010 18:30:05 GMT -5
The trouble shooting a 45 at 2700 is that it kicks like a wild mag. Don't care for it, about 2450-2500 is where I'm ok with pulling the trigger on my 45. That being said I'd take the 308 (even over the 06) over the 45 any time it's legal. There are other calibers that have become my go to guns over the years but that's outside the orginal question so I'll refrain from bring them into the mix
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Post by cuda on Jan 31, 2010 23:03:30 GMT -5
I have shot 30-06, 243, 30-30, 7.62x39, 222, 223, 300WM. I want a 308 or 30-06 just checking to see which one everyone likes. I can get a new Marlin XL7 for $350 or less Mossberg for around the same price new. I will reload for either one I buy. To much recoil by reloading I can lighten up the load.
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Post by minst7877 on Feb 2, 2010 23:27:50 GMT -5
I have a Rem 740 in 30-06 and a browning BLR in 308. Both shoot very well for what they were purchased for which was short range brush busting. Both are very easy to carry but for reloading I would choose the 308 over the 06 and I have done both. The 308 is a very inherently accurate cartridge for some unknown reason that I can't explain but the 06 sits in the safe while the 308 goes for walks. It will do everything that the 06 will do and possibly a bit better.
DC
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Post by dxt20 on Feb 5, 2010 16:26:23 GMT -5
the 30-06 has proably taken as much big game as any other rifle in the world. however the 308 is a very very good cartridge also... i shoot a 308 at deer and it does the trick everytime. personally i think any 30 caliber is to big for coyotes. i would use something 22 caliber and under. but if you want a gun for elk, deer, mule deer, pronghorn, and even moose and grizzly bear, the 30-06 will preform everytime... with a 308 i would not shoot anything bigger than an elk... as far as reloading the 30-06 and 308 both take the same diameter bullet.
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Post by cuda on Feb 6, 2010 0:45:45 GMT -5
Not worried about the pelts. Coyotes are after the deer I hunt so now I am going to hunt them too. Hard to get them to come in calling them as others have just shot and missed. Now they know what is going on and will not get close. So I will reach out and touch them one way or another. Gun show is tonight and Saturday and Sunday. I'm going Saturday and I will see what I can bring home. If I find what I like I will let you guys know what I came up with.
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Post by ozark on Feb 8, 2010 12:25:50 GMT -5
The difference between the .308 and the 30-06 is so slight I see absolutely no use of having both. The bullets are the same diameter and either will handle any animal in north america. Since the 06 has been in use many more years it has killed more game. For some unknown reason to me people are not buying the .308 as much lately. Anyone know the reason why? It can't be that it is not a top quality game killer with plenty of velocity, bullet weight, accuraacy and availability of ammunition off the shelft. Reminds me of how the Winchester .243 out sold 6mm Rem. when the 6mm was actually the better cartridge by a little. The buying public is hard to figure out.
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Post by petev on Feb 8, 2010 12:38:28 GMT -5
In regards to recoil, Remington offers .308 bullets in "managed recoil". It may be more suitable for coyotes, etc. than deer. In regards to trade ins, dealers seem to be less than enthusiastic about taking a .308 on trade, because not many people want them. My reaction to the public's preferences mirror Ozarks.
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Post by cfvickers on Feb 8, 2010 15:29:42 GMT -5
Firearms manufacturers are pushing magnums and short magnums. When is the last time anyone created a new non-magnum caliber? Savage chambered rifles in 6.5-284 but it gives magnum velocity to the reloader. I can't remember when a new standard cartridge has been introduced in a big game rifle. And there is no improvement in the newer magnums other than those that hold 100+ grains of powder. So when they hype these guns up, it is what the people want, it is what the companies told them to want. Why? profit. They make a huge profit on magnum ammo. Keep capacity the same and stamp magnum on it then the box of factory ammo is worth 15.00 more on average. However, this brings us to hunters who have little shooting experience firing heavy recoil rounds to poor accuracy. Awesome! Remington gets to sell them more ammo so they can get plenty of follow up shots..
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Post by cuda on Feb 9, 2010 1:45:43 GMT -5
I am going to order the 308 I will use it for deer during the rifle season here. The coyotes will be for target practice only. Deer I can shoot with a shotgun but we have a rifle season acrossed the bottom of the state. If I am going to get a rifle I want a rifle. I would not use it on a fox but the coyotes are fair game. And I might get to shoot some pigs with it too. I will reload all of my own ammo for it anyway.
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Post by olsmokey on Feb 26, 2010 19:12:55 GMT -5
They used to mfg. 30-06 excellerators,which was an 06 with a 22 cal. bullet wraped in a plastic sabot. They boasted a 4000fps. They also made them for the 30-30. What ever happened to them??
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Post by Hawkeye on Feb 27, 2010 19:58:58 GMT -5
For some unknown reason to me people are not buying the .308 as much lately. Anyone know the reason why? 7mm/08
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Post by cuda on Feb 27, 2010 21:13:47 GMT -5
Well they still make them www.eabco.com/reload02.html. They are made for reloading but you can still find loaded ammo too. The 30-06 was cheaper so that is what I now own. I still need to sight it in yet.
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Post by deadeye on Feb 27, 2010 21:19:27 GMT -5
They used to mfg. 30-06 excellerators,which was an 06 with a 22 cal. bullet wraped in a plastic sabot. They boasted a 4000fps. They also made them for the 30-30. What ever happened to them?? the ones i shot years ago in 30-06 lost stabilty somewhere around 200-300yds,might work great close up for a yote "blow-up" but i opt for my 220 swift for that!
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Post by herman on Feb 28, 2010 6:03:52 GMT -5
cuda congrats on the new 30/06.You will like it when you get er dialed in.What brand did you get? A 125 BT would be bad on those yotes.I like the 165's for deer.
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Post by ozark on Mar 19, 2010 20:11:43 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with the 30-06 or the .308. Both are military cartridges that have become popular with hunters. The .308 was adopdted by NATO so that all NATO members would be using the same cartridge. Probably so the USA could provide members with gift ammunition. Winchester was quick to change the designation of the 7.62 NATO to .308. It was a good move and millions have been sold. Some have stated that it permitted the soldier to carry more ammunition. I don't see that much difference in the two weight wise. Now, the M-16 in 5.56 mm did provide a much lighter to carry round. I competed with the M-1 30-06 and also with the M-14. The M-14 did break all the service rifle records set by the M1. But ammunition and better trained shooters along with more experienced armorers helped a lot. Another feature the M-14 had was that it could be adapted easily to fire fully automatic. As far as hunting cartridges go, one can't go wrong with either. The shorter .308 needs less bolt action length and is probably better designed for semi-automatic use. Neither are likely to fade away.
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Post by cuda on Mar 24, 2010 22:03:19 GMT -5
Sorry for the late reply I bought the Mossgerg ATR 30-06 combo $359.47 gun and one box of shell out the door. I just opened the box on my new Lee deluxe reloading kit 4 hole press. I will be reloading most of my ammo I plan on staying with 150gr bullet Winchester brass and powder. After I do a little reloading I will see just what I can really do. The 308 ammo was hard to find that is why I went with the 30-06. The recoil is less than my 10ML-ll.
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Post by tcmech on Mar 28, 2010 8:01:53 GMT -5
I have never shot one of the new mossbergs but have read good things about them in the past. i don't think there is enough difference between the two calibers to make me take one over the other.
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Post by herman on Apr 7, 2010 6:05:22 GMT -5
cuda I haven't shot the new mosbergs but have shot some of the older models and they shot pretty good. You said you wanted to stick with 150 gr bullets.If you have any R-15 you may want to give it a try with 53.6 grs.It is listed in the alliant pamplet.It has been safe in every 30-06 rifle I have tried it in but to be sure I would go down a couple grains and work up to it.In a 24 in barrel should give you around 3000 fps.I like the 150 BT's or the hornady sst's. Have fun with your new rifle.
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Post by deadeye on Apr 7, 2010 10:57:34 GMT -5
i have not found a 30-06 yet that has not liked imr4064 w/ a nosler 150 gn b-tip around 52.0gns , just finished up a rem chrono'd @ 3050fps/sub-moa. like herman said start low & work up,just giving you some more load data to try out if you want especially if you shelf some 4064,one of my favorite powders to work with over the years.
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Post by ccchunter on Sept 30, 2011 16:48:00 GMT -5
Cuda, I think the reason you don't see any .308's or 7mm08's on the new gun racks is because the mfgrs streamline their inventory and PUSH the .270's, 30-06, 7mm mag. on potential buyers.
Most of the buying public are not readers and are thus uninformed. I've found that the more informed gun buyer will know that these less popular calibers even exist. They will SEEK OUT a rifle that has the caliber they want even if they have to order it.
I have two cousins that I've deer hunted with for 20 years. Neither of them knew what a 7mm08 was when I bought mine. Nate
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Post by cuda on Oct 1, 2011 21:06:12 GMT -5
Well my son bought the 308 Stevens 200 and a 270 Maverick. And I bought a Stevens 200 in 223 at a gun show who know what I will find yet. It seems that what I do not have my sons seem to be looking at. I just never know what I will find at a gun show or gun rack in a store. I know that I need a bigger gun safe NOW. We will see what find will have to come home with me nexted.
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Post by swampmen on Oct 17, 2011 18:35:54 GMT -5
The 308 my guess like it better then 06
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Post by spoonover on Oct 17, 2011 20:06:42 GMT -5
i have not found a 30-06 yet that has not liked imr4064 w/ a nosler 150 gn b-tip around 52.0gns , just finished up a rem chrono'd @ 3050fps/sub-moa. like herman said start low & work up,just giving you some more load data to try out if you want especially if you shelf some 4064,one of my favorite powders to work with over the years. +1 here, 4064 is a good way to make the 06 pull away from a 308. 308 has less ES than the 06, that is why it has done so well at longer ranges.
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 17, 2011 21:27:18 GMT -5
If you shoot heavier then 180gr bullets and have a 26" or longer barrel the 30-06 will outperform the 308. More case capacity for slower powders to take advantage of the long barrel. I know of one guy that took a Palma barrel, re-chambered from 308 to 30-06AI, re-crowned and the sucker flat rocks. He shoots less then 2" groups at 300yds pretty consistent but he is also a pretty smart trigger puller.
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Post by muznut on Feb 1, 2012 17:19:52 GMT -5
When I was reading down this post I was going to say about the same thing heavier bullet, butt the 308 will getter done my buddy who got a moose tag last summer wanted me to sight in hi's 308 blr and wanted my opinion showed me some ammo he had one box of 180 core lokt spire and one box 180 blunt I told him the 308 would be fine but use the blunts they hit harder well he shot a 900lb bull moose it wasn't the biggest around but still a moose. And also the 308 was the first WSM for a shorter action and lighter gun.
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